UKA and ABC

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UKA and ABC

I posted this on UKA - thought you might like to see it.

Unfortunately my good intentions were, sadly, unfruitful.

Perhaps I might have better luck here...

'I felt the need to say this because it’s something that’s really starting to upset me and I wanted to make things a bit clearer.

It’s to do (surprise, surprise!) with UKA’s relationship with ABC, which I wanted to explain a little.

I became a member of ABC on the same day they launched the site. About 3 years ago I think it was. Saw it on the Beeb news. John Bird stepped out of that black cab and introduced a fabulous new website which encouraged the free participation of all writers, published or not, to post their work. Giving people like you and I a chance to get our stuff out there and read. I joined straight away and have never regretted it.

Since then, I’ve regularly posted my stuff on ABC and participated in the forums. Still do, although not so much, as my time is somewhat limited these days. Either way, ABC gave me a lot of confidence, for which I’m very grateful. I might even go so far as to say that, without ABC, there might not have been a UKA :-)

And the point of all this? Well, it saddens me no end to see the sniping that’s going on between the two sites. I’ve said it before, but I’ll say it again – we are NOT in competition with each other, there’s plenty of room for both. Yes, we may have different agendas and different ways of doing things, but surely this is good? Choice is always good, no? True, there are certain people who do their best to stir up trouble between the two sites, but I want to say that this is not the spirit of ABC, nor that of UKA.

The guys who run ABC are doing a difficult job, as we are here, and doing it brilliantly. I’ve met Tony Cook personally, and he’s a great bloke, totally dedicated to his site, as I am to mine. We exchange links and info and try to help each other as much as possible. Ivoryfishbone (Alison Dunne) is not only a great poet, but has stayed in my flat in A’dam (the jam was delicious, Fish:-)) Liana is a lovely person with whom I’m in regular email contact. I consider them all to be friends.

All these guys, the REAL spirit of ABC are working damn hard, as we are at UKA, to provide somewhere for you guys to display your stuff and, at the same time, have as much fun as possible.

I’m not pointing any fingers here, I just think it’s high time we recognised that we need to help each other, not be at each others throats. As I mentioned in another thread, if you want to exclusively post on UKA, fine, if you want to exclusively post on ABC, also fine. But (and I know Tony would agree with me on this) if you want to participate on both sites, even better. Just don’t slag each other off, ok? It’s not only unnecessary, but totally pointless as well.

So please, please, just ignore the troublemakers, they are NOT, as I said before, acting in the interests, or spirit, of either site.

We both (Tony and I) have the same goals, so let’s just all try to get along. There’s absolutely no reason why we can’t, and we’d both be awfully grateful if you gave it your best shot:-)

I don’t know how many of you have seen this interview, which’ll be appearing on the ABC front page as soon as they’ve updated it, but it might give you some idea of the cooperation between us. Hope so, anyway.

Now that Thought Caff's gone, UKA and ABC are the two main UK writers’ sites, so let’s get our shit together and do what we all really want to do…write.

Well, that’s about it, really. Needed to get that out, it really was beginning to get to me.

So we’re all gonna be nice, right? And make me a very happy (Easter) bunny…

Anyway, here’s the interview…

'

mississippi
Anonymous's picture
Auntie Jugular, will you PLEASE sit down and behave.
Andorra
Anonymous's picture
Michel.
AJ
Anonymous's picture
I have a confession to make......I have been very naughty!! I know tis not like me at all. But was good on Friday so am allowed to be naughty today. Anyway I have copied and pasted Andrea's post back onto UKA for anybody that mssed it. Trouble is I feel that I may now be exterminated from UKA..........oops I mean excommunicated..........no that's not right. DELETED forever. :(
Marnie
Anonymous's picture
Thank you!
Thought Purleece
Anonymous's picture
Alright now. Move along there. Lock that shed and stopper those flasks. Don't you unwrap them jaffas. There's nowt to be seen here now. Move along. OK sarge bring in the Big Eraser. That's it lads. Rub!
Elephantine Memory
Anonymous's picture
Auntie Jugular - weren't you an editor on the UKA once?
Andorra
Anonymous's picture
A pleasure, ma'am. *bows gracefully and races off to view bearded lady*
Thought Purleece
Anonymous's picture
Eh? Sarge? Come in Sarge. The Big Eraser ain't workin Sarge. Over.
AJ
Anonymous's picture
yes elephantine I was..........'nuff said me thinks. ;)
Thought Purleece
Anonymous's picture
I am pleased to say the Big Eraser is still fully functional on UKAuthors.com. Whoever thought it amusing to go in there and flash their ars.e and say "Moderate THAT" will be getting a visit from some of our enforcement operatives.
Emma
Anonymous's picture
*adjusts deckchair, dips shortbread into Earl Grey and brandy, slurps tea, ah*
Hen
Anonymous's picture
AJ must be real. No one would pretend to be such a bitter old fruitloop.
AJ
Anonymous's picture
oh dear..........am gone now. :(
Herr Indoors
Anonymous's picture
Delete that post at ONCE!
Thought Purleece
Anonymous's picture
All is now well in Stalag UKA. No ars.es shall be flashed. Nobody will say anything that does not fit with the management's ideals. Ensure your boots are clean and a 1 euro coin bounces exactly 0.5 of a metre when dropped on your bedspread.
Emma
Anonymous's picture
Neil, I don't use UKA, and have only dipped in two or three times.
Emma
Anonymous's picture
Her indoors, oooh, that's a subject I could really get my teeth into. We had to move house because I had a running battle with a complete bitch who lived next door to us, she never got out as she couldn't drive. I've never known anyone so walled in by the Dyson and the decor. The only time she left the house was to fetch her kid from school. She made it her mission to stop me from settling in and parenting my own way. She built up all this malicious unfounded gossip about me amongst the neighbours based on what her 8 year old son told her about what my kids got up to outside. He was so jealous of us he used to tell my son to do things to him, then run in and tell his mummy. Don't talk to me about her indoors. AAAAAHHHHHH
plonker spotter
Anonymous's picture
OOOOH, what's all this then? Her self-righteousness is branching out. Who knows by this time next year she may even be making a take-over bid for ABC.
AJ
Anonymous's picture
hiya Marnie........nice to see that at least two of the posters of Andrea's original thread on UKA have still remained! Me am but an outcast. :( "Wonders" if stories will be deleted from Bluechrome second edition of Voices from the Web? "Wonders" again how the said editor will explain how there are stories in that book, but no member of that name can be found on UKA! Perhaps Bluechrome should put a disclaimer with regards to writers and stories, along the lines of........he, she was there.....but they pissed the editor off with some truths...which because the editor didn't get support from the other writers decided to DELETE ALL TRACES from the site along with the alleged perpertrator, except only one was singled out. Is this discrimination? Could I sue for wrongful DELETION?
Better spotter
Anonymous's picture
If you had been a decent spotter, Mr Plonker, you would have spotted "...I hope to have a second collection, published as a paperback, on the shelves early in 2003." So it's obviously an old post. [%sig%]
Herr Indoors
Anonymous's picture
Fifty three members. Bless.
AJ
Anonymous's picture
Hey CONGRATULATIONS cockweasel alias (littlecock) seems you've just made it to the bigtime over on UKA. MODERATOR......WOW.......pieces fall into place finally. Be careful though never be truthful, always bow and always ingratiate yourself to the editor, lest ye be TERMINATED! Enjoy, I did until..........
LOrdhimm
Anonymous's picture
Yes, it's very sad, I started out online here at ABC and moved to UKA for reasons I can't fully remember. I was cherried here and received support and advice from both communities, which I always regarded as two sides of the same coin. I also posted on the late lamented thoughtcafe. When I read something I like I say so. likewise I also feel that the teams that run these sities deserve all the respect we can offer them. As for the differences between the sites, well the French had it when they said "Vive La Difference".
AJ
Anonymous's picture
Awww, what a shame! Author: Andrea (---.xdsl.tiscali.nl) Date: 04-10-04 21:42 Sorry guys, just to let you know that forum is now 'login only'. Only a temporary measure, hopefully, until the silly people bent on being spiteful get bored and go elsewhere :-) Shame, but there ya go - that's life, it seems. Unsurprising that the world's in such a mess really, is it, if a bunch 'o' writers can't even be civil to one another? Ah well... Any probs, let me know, eh? Andrea@ukauthors.com
AJ
Anonymous's picture
Dear Stephen, Blushes profusely....fancy you remembering my ickle old crutch! ;) Fish.......exactly who were you calling the geriatric tart? Moi or Stephen? Littlecock........ "bitter old fruitloop" is that the best insult that you can throw at me? And you with your so called university education and all!
1legspider
Anonymous's picture
Bearded Lady. It is worth a peek...
mississippi
Anonymous's picture
In which case don't bother your head.
mississippi
Anonymous's picture
And to think all this happened because Philip Seddon's wife is having an affair and everybody on UKA wanted to help him! It seems to me that Philip is probably less in need of help than UKA!
Hen
Anonymous's picture
AJ - any half-interesting insult would put you on too high a pedestal. You have to *earn* the titles others give you. For now, 'bitter old fruitloop' is all you're getting. And I'm being more than generous. Some people would say that's a waste of a good 'fruitloop'.
Emma
Anonymous's picture
I've been corrected behind the scenes about our Andrew. This was a little jest I must say in my defence...apparently he's really trendy and younger than I suggest!! Hey ho!
andrew pack
Anonymous's picture
Hey, and any kid who points at me in the street will be needing a splint for that finger...
Emma
Anonymous's picture
But you have to admit I've invented a good character for a short story, I'm claiming the copyright to that before you lot run off with it. Actually my Andrew sketch above sounds like a good one for a Ruth Rendell style mystery... *ponders* I'm re-reading the Rendell from my top-ten at the mo. She's great at building up all the facets of a quirky character...
Record?
Anonymous's picture
Has Andrea set a record with this thread or has there been longer ones? Anyway, congrats on starting such a popular thread Andrea!
d.beswetherick
Anonymous's picture
I haven't noticed anyone having a go at UK Authors, though I suppose I don't read all the threads. In fact, Andrea often invites ABCers to enter for UKA competitions and anthologies, and I dare say she mentions ABC competitions on UKA. I agree that there's no point in sniping; cross-fertilisation is the better idea, to mix metaphors. I haven't joined UKA but I do nip over now and then to read Tom Saunders, who used to post his stories here. * As for writers talking to themselves, I think it should be excused, if not encouraged. I talk to myself, too. (OK, not on the internet - more around the house and in the street, which is only a problem in the second case.) However, I'm considering talking to myself on a more formal basis, using message boards. It will be an advantage to be able to quote myself accurately when I disagree with anything I've just said. d.beswetherick.
d.beswetherick
Anonymous's picture
Bollocks, mate.
justyn_thyme
Anonymous's picture
Well, I've been involved with both sites for quite some time and I must say I really don't have the foggiest idea what this is all about. I guess I wasn't watching the forums closely enough. I don't see any competition between the two sites, other than what might be called 'competition for overall improvement,' but that's a good thing, I would think. Raising the bar and all that. BTW, UKA Press is not self-publishing. It may not have the resources of a major print publisher, but it is not a vanity press.
Skydolphin
Anonymous's picture
I agree with Justyn Thyme : a)I don't see any competition between the two sites b)other than what might be called 'competition for overall improvement,' but that's a good thing, c)UKA Press is not self-publishing. It may not have the resources of a major print publisher, but it is not a vanity press. Well said Justyn :) Peace and Happy Easter!
Skydolphin
Anonymous's picture
and I would like to say that Skydolphin is Silentmemories at Ukauthors and I'm HAPPY I'm a member of UKAUTHORS and very proud as well! I use both sites and I have expressed my sincere positive feelings for ABCTALES many times in the past too.
Stormy
Anonymous's picture
Late as ever ... I'm still recovering from the kind of w/e you have with an old soul mate ... almost alcoholically poisoned ... nothing to be proud of... had to work today for a few hours ... very hard, heh. and I'm still wine lagged hence the late night post: Anyway, seems a lot has happened since my post above... I accept all the points Bosch makes. I think we were speaking about the same subject only he focussed in on one point. My meanderings failed to deliver. Upon catching up today I saw a thread on UKA (can't post the link right now coz forgot to copy it but it's on the poetry discussion thread and was started by Michel) in which Bosch explains in in great detail what I tried to put over (and clearly failed) in a sentence. Sabelle, I would suggest my point was lost on you (and perhaps others). I wasn't suggesting there *should* be negative feedback, quite how you arrive at that conclusion is beyond me. As regards the 'pm' system, abc has something similar. It's called email. If a writer wants feedback they display their addy and if not, they don't. Very simple. Justyn, quite right. Don't know what made me come up with the words 'self-publication' ... I stand corrected. Mr. Pack, yes, people here have tried self-promotion but they usually get found out. The point I tried to make (and clearly failed) was that on UKA it is allowed (provided you let an editor know in advance) or ignored because the populace of the site either: 1) Don't care 2) Trust everything they see (hence my 'question motive' remark in my earlier post.) Finally, I wasn't 'slagging off UKA' per se. I think UKA is a well constructed site (search my previous posts for proof) but, like all writing sites, its success seems to revolve around its forum or other attributes away from the actual writing itself. And that is why I made my post above. As I said, I don't care one jot for the perceived enmity between the sites (there is none ... only a perception by a few) but what I do care about is freedom of speech and its manipulation (again, see my earlier post). I merely tried to point out why I preferred ABC. Before I came here I was on a message board on which I fell out with its American moderator (quelle surprise!). I took him to task over the hollywood version of the role of Blacks in the War of Independance and, several posts later, when he realised his defence was based entirely on the Civil War and I accused him of not knowing the history of his own country, he deleted all his posts. But not mine. That left anyone not online at the time (a one hour period) wondering what I was on about. Apart from a few Canadians. But then they have brains. Threads/posts should not be edited. IMHO smiley
s.d
Anonymous's picture
I don't know what all the fuss is about. Feedback from junior writers can only improve your writing so much the same as all these courses at uni, although not dissin them totally. Most of the great writers of yesterday would scorn at all this shit and laugh at this stuff. If you have the belief and conviction you will become what you want in life and you dont really need to rely on feedback from other junior writers, and, if and when your novel comes out it will be down to your own graft and not the feedback of people on line, infact the wrong kind of feedback could end up hindering your writing. It's really not that hard to write a novel. For a few great tips look at 'A. Packs' bio and grab the east anglia creative writing book and just keep scanning published novels. The hardest part of writing a novel is coming up with a story people actually want to read and wchich will capture the publisher or agent. Learning how to write with structure is like 'taking candy from a baby' if you know the ins and outs. Belief and conviction. Look at all the excellent novels on the shelf, most of these guys have just learned of there own back and percevered and what where they doing before online well became online. Nearly everyone whos submits shorts and novel extracts on this site are of the same calibre. There is definetly not one group of people 'whos writing' is better than anyone elses. It also depends what market your trying to capture. Everyones writing has an audience and some of the comments about people being more series writers than others is the biggest piece of 'hocus pocus' i have heard in my life and shows the level of ignorance these people are actually caught up in, as i said it depends on what market your aiming for. Don't let anyone on these sites belittle your writing.
Emma
Anonymous's picture
s_d I love this Learning how to write with structure is like 'taking candy from a baby' if you know the ins and outs. now that's clever, and I know just what you mean there.
Andorra
Anonymous's picture
I like this s_d post very much, too. Target market and *confident, practical* approach. (llegs - Glad you 'liked' the bearded lady...shudder...)
Hen
Anonymous's picture
I keep wanting to contribute constructively to the argument, but I also really want to slag off AJ, even though it's more of the personal sniping we all abhor. I can't help it. Any site that keeps her out is doing itself a favour as far as I'm concerned, in the same way as a school that kicks out the sixth former who insists on setting fire to the classrooms and beating the shit out of the younger years ;-) Seriously though - basically, I agree with Andrew/Tony/Sky, in that the differences between the sites are to be welcomed. I do prefer UKA, *not* because, as Missi claims, I am worshipped there (I'm not,) but because I get better quality of feedback there, and enjoy interacting with the members more. There's no rivalry per se - but there are people around who like to invent a rivalry, because they like a scrap. I am still for moderated forums, because this ideal of freedom of speech just translates to anarchy on ABC. OK, it's not a particularly world-shattering kind of anarchy, but it *is* survival of the fittest, and fuck the ones who can't take the heat. It's like a post-apocalyptic manga film with biker gangs roaming the landscape and beating up anyone weaker than themselves. If that's your idea of fun, fine, but I find it limits the amount of time I can spend on the forum without getting pissed off. I don't see why I'm not allowed to express these opinions here without it being 'reinterpreted' by Missi.
mississippi
Anonymous's picture
That's just the point Jon, you ARE allowed to express any damned opinions you like HERE. I would be the last person to want to stop you as well.
Hen
Anonymous's picture
Your definition of 'stop' and 'allowed' is different to mine. To my mind, if I'm personally berated for expressing certain opinions, and as a result do not express them again, I have been 'stopped'. And if members of a society, knowing this to be true, attack someone for expressing their opinion, they are not 'allowing' that expression. Look at my manga film scenario again, in which gangs of cyber-thugs roam the landscape. Sure, everyone can do and say what they want. We can't stop them, because there's no 'moderaters' interferring. But if people are getting beaten up just for being vulnerable, or saying something the cyber-thugs don't like, are they really free? Some freedom! They seem to be lacking moderation in Iraq at the moment. Some utopia! Fortunately, we are only words here. If it were a cocktail party, the police would have turned up hours ago and incarcerated most of us (Nazi scum, eh?) There's an interesting dynamic here, I agree, and I guess there are lots of people who prefer it this way (just as UEA has its own anarchist society,) but there are plenty who would prefer a less dog eat dog discussion forum, and for them, the UKA moderators do a sound job of keeping out trouble makers. You can argue the merits of this scenario, but this whole 'principle of free speech' argument is wildly amiss.
AJ
Anonymous's picture
http://www.gregssandbox.com/places/spain/beard.htm Wow tis uncanny the likeness.......decides to invest in a good geneology course. Am a coming great great great grandmamma. ;)
mississippi
Anonymous's picture
Oh there's been longer ones but it's ironical that the thread popularity is based on the very thing she's opposed to in part. ie unmoderated forums.
AJ
Anonymous's picture
Hi Neil the auditor...........Missip's grandma actually! ;) To litttlecock: "After all every community needs its idiots." OH DEAR DID I TOUCH A RAW NERVE THERE? How long have you held the position? WHICH POSTION EXACTLY? ;0 Oh, and incidentally - using Down's Syndrome as a fast track to a joke/insult? Nice. Real nice. Like when you proposed showing the parents of murdered children what we were saying in the ABC threads, so they'd get upset and you could blame it on the posters. Smooooooth. EM.....WELL YES MY SON IS DOWN'S SYNDROME.......FACT. EM....AND HE DOES HAVE MORE SINCERE AND HONEST THOUGHTS IN HIS BRAIN THAN YOURS.........HE HAS THE ABILITY TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN RIGHT AND WRONG..........FACT EM.....AND YES I AM SURE THE KIDS PARENTS WOULD HAVE ABHORED YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT THE DEATHS OF THEIR KIDS.......FACT PS...BUT AM REALLY INTRIGUED ABOUT YOUR AWFUL MAKEUP! PLEASE REVEAL ALL TO AJ. ;)
Yorkshire Blork
Anonymous's picture
Smash Hits circa 1992 - letters page: "I love Take That, they are so fit! East 17 are rubbish and I hope they die of a dying thing." Kylie, Milton Keynes "Kylie is a wrong and a big slag, East 17 are ace and Take That are - here we go - SHITE!" Toyah, Benllech "Hey Kylie and Toyah, like, take a chill pill you guys. Why all this nasty stuff? I like both bands!" Somegirl, Someothercraptown So...decide who you're with on the great ABC/UKA question? And then wonder why there's a thread on the topic with 100 plus responses to it.
martin_t
Anonymous's picture
i'm not sure what the argument was about between abc and uk authors and to be honest i can't be arsed to find out.... but on the topic of moderation of discussion forums, i feel that they have to be moderated, if only to stop malicious posters from posting stuff for which a site could be sued, defammation, libel,etc and i don't particularly mind having to log on to post on a board, i post on other boards and it is standard for them, and if you feel you have to post under a different name, then you probably trolling to provoke a response, or flaming someone maliciously most people have pseudonyms on these boards anyway so the question of identity is a mute one anyway..... and abc does seem to attract several regular trolls who are able to do so because they don't have to register to post

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