New Writers

Nice idea... I'll have a chat with Fingers and see what can be done :-)

Good Idea Chant.. Anything to encourage new people to share their work.. ..and to get involved in commenting on others efforts.

i like the principle of it, but i do read the " please critique me" posts without resenting it, especially if they claim to be new writers to the site. If my reaction to their work is heavily biased towards the negative i won't respond, because i always feel the clamminess of making forced or insincere comments... perhaps writers who are new to this site don't want to be patronised as " new "..perhaps it's harsh of me..but i would expect anyone aspiring to write to be capable of establishing themselves without mollycoddling...and there are plenty of helpful voices in the discussion groups... for me the discuss writing forum is the appropriate place for new writers to come in, requesting critiques, a forum specifically for new writers might create a ghetto that the regulars never visit..it's difficult to justify trawling every discussion group when the time to maintain threads soon adds up... but a good idea in principle...perhaps new writers could have a big red NW next to their name for the first couple of weeks..then in the forums those willing to engage in critiques and conversations could easily spot who is a fresh, succulent and trembling devotee on the threshold of becoming..a regular..sheesh i hate that word regular... ta ra. martin

I think this is not a bad idea - then those who are willing to help out can do so and those who get irked by the cheery breeziness of the newcomers can choose to avoid that forum. Anything that makes people feel more at home is a good thing, in my humble opinion.

As a new writer to this site, I think this would be pretty good idea. I've been pleased with the way in which people who have responded to my 'begging', since they have been very friendly and cheery responses, and I feel welcome. Also, I think a lot of new people to the site may not want to be seen as pushy by having to constantly plug their own work and say 'please read my stuff!!' I know I didn't like doing it, but as I said, the responses have been great and very helpful. Callum

I'm one of those newbies. Only recently inspired to try some writing again and was led to this web site by someone from the first online forum to post my work. May I suggest you check out what that 'other' site (thoughtcafe) offers its members? It's simple, but extremely effective: when a reader comes to the end of an article/story/poem, he/she is invited to critique or comment on what they have just read. When someone does add a comment, the writer is automatically notified. In this way, one quickly gets to know other contributors and will inevitably read their work in turn. A member can also add those people whose work they like to a list of 'friends', and when someone from this list of friends posts a new piece, all the other friends on their list are automatically notified. One of the things I really like about ABCtales is that the editors also "voice' an opinion by highlighting any submission they find particularly interesting or well written, and that members can rate what they have read. Frankly though, this is such a huge site I'm tending to read only the cherry picked articles...not at all fair to the ..what..80%? of articles, and thus those who write them, that don't receive this kind of recognition. Okay. Now I'll shut up!

Us "regulars" ... well, me, actually, have been agitating for a feedback form to accompany every story like you have been suggesting, but I think the standard response is that it might be too discouraging if every dickhead on the internet started leaving nasty comments just because there was a form there. In fact I don't think it happens all that often on the sites that have it (Storymania is another one, and the fantasy + scinece fiction site Elfwood) and I would be in favour too. You could even have a system where an author could delete a comment that s/he didn't like, or an "opt in" system where a comment had to be approved by the author before it appeared under the story. If we go on asking for this, and maybe buy Emily and Andrew the occasional box of chocolates we might get it some day.

I'm not so sure that a new forum would make any difference. Would it not be a duplication, to a certain extent, of this one? This is the discuss writing one after all and I cannot see the responses being any different no matter what the forum was called. Many already introduce themselves in here and ask for their work to be looked at. sometimes they put a link to a cretain piece or just make a general request. If you go to that persons userpage thewir biography, if they chose to put one on, is displayed there. With regard to a comments sectionall the points mentioned above are valid but why should this site become a clone of the many others out there? each site on the web has good and bad points. Thoughtcafe has been mentioned, but even Chant has complained about the standard of comments made by other users. I've had a look and it seems that apart from a few people who can string a sentence together most of the comments are 'Gosh, that was really nice, I look forward to more'. The BTgetoutthere site has a comments section that is used fairly extensively but they seem to have had a few problems too. A critique section has been available on ABC for a long time but I don't know how many people use it and how many responses they have received. I think the main point I am trying to make is that you cannot force people into reviewing without turning the site into a zoetrope zone. those willing to comment on peoples work in these threads already do so and others, who prefer the e-mail method, probably do so too. Quite a few writers here have their work on more than one site to, presumably, get the different feedbacks available that each site offers. Personally, I always find 'welcomes' a tad on the fake side. I've seen this on other sites. mr or ms newbie pops in and says 'hello'. A few people say 'hi welcome to the site'. and that is that. All very polite but I have found here that people who just join in with the latest discussion get responded to in a positive way anyway. Anyway, no system is perfect and you have to take the positive values from each site. Accept the good points from ABC and go to thoughtlesscafe and btnotoutthere for comments and zoetrope and similar sites for long hours of reviewing and writing.

I have to agree with Stormy - I think thoughtcafe is a very nice site and if you want a few people to give you quick feedback it is a good place to go; but as Stormy says, the feedback is a bit skimpy - either "I liked it" or a Bill Monks complaint that the story was not tailored specifically for Bill Monks and people exactly like him. (This dislike I have for the man is based on his complaint about Julian's Bourbon, a story that I think could be slotted into any collection of "Newly discovered Ray Carver" stories without causing anyone to blink). Horses for courses - I think you get better feedback from people who are moved or impressed by a story sufficiently to email you about it, or who think of something you could do in a different and better way. If you try to compel feedback, you just get very bland responses / people being mean for the sake of it.

I think Stormy read the word "form" in my post as "forum". It was a FORM I was asking for (dammit!), a FORM on the page underneath the story that you fill in with your comment, up to some reasonable word limit. Storymania and several other sites have it. It's a thousand times more useful than a one-to-five star rating system. people can actually say what they did and didn't like about the story, even people who aren't ABC regulars and don't contribute to these forums. What happens now is that somebody makes a comment on some story here in the forums, doesn't give an author or a page reference, and when you try to chase it up you can't find it. It's just a hopelessly inefficient feedback system compared to the simple feedback form accompanying each story.

David, I was firstly responding to Chant's initial post about a new forum, not a new form. I subsequently addressed the point about 'forms' in my third paragraph and onwards in which I wondered, in addition to saying your points are valid, why everyone seems so keen to make this site into a clone of all others out there. This site is not perfect by any means but it is a bloody damn sight better than most of the pretensious how far up my own @!#$ can I get lovey dovey writers of total crap especially those would not know a cinquain from a limerick or what defines a good short story if it ran them over, sites.

fucking hell the filter deleted my 'a.rse'

I am a: a new writer to this site (ish) b: someone who already contributes to another site the comments on an individual piece are always rewarding. The occasional juvenile halfwit will always arise but, I think, is far more inclined to want to voice off on a general board like this where everyone can see their diatribe than pouring through every individual piece and leaving the same garbage on each. If a comment has to be left after reading then it becomes a chore and you get "very nice blah blah" but if it's an option then those who want to say something will bother and they're more likely to want to if it's right there after reading it rather than having to remember to come here and start a thread. I feel that it would be a little better than this board because then the majority of people would get a comment of some kind eventually rather than here where their chances are less unless they ask for it themselves. what a boring comment this is....err..... an alien walks into a pub.....

hear hear, Ely

Stormy wrote: “A critique section has been available on ABC for a long time but I don't know how many people use it and how many responses they have received”. Where? where? where? I couldn’t find it anywhere. In view of the frequent demand for this facility perhaps it would be useful if access to this facility were made more obvious. You know, something like the route-signs on highways. Nice big white letters on a blue background :)

I've moved the mention of it on the front page higher up the page now - it's at http://www.abctales.com/abcplex/viewfeature.cgi?f=164 Cheers Em