the unpleasant side of abc

> Of course we're NOT all responsible and that's what sets this site apart from the others < I'd better qualify that before I get misinterpreted. What I meant is that less liberal sites would remove the offending posts and homogenise their forums into boredom or out of existence.

Neither do I Missi My life would be pretty bad if it just involved talking:-)

Just scroll past it. I do.

You've got me intrigued now Sadbelle.

Hi Skeeter Sorry that it’s come to this Skeeter, I feel you are one of the more constructive thinkers and contributors on this site! It's a bit like giving in to the kids that run around with paint tins spraying rude words over other people’s property. Shame the little cyber taggers on this site can't have their... "ears clipped"!...........Probably be a law against it any way and then they would "squeak" off to the European Court of Human Rights to have their sad little lives of spewing bile over everyone else upheld as a civil liberty! O' well I for one will be sorry that you won't join in the Threads anymore. Really sorry that the "squeaky little ABC taggers" have got to you Skeeter! Hope they are pleased with themselves. Creek

Exactly. The point is not to rise to it or to feed it and hopefully it will stay between those who choose to do the opposite.

Andy James Edwards, age 19, you didn't answer my question. Where or how were you told to eff off? What name were you posting under? By the way, if you read my post carefully, I did say you were probably away for the w/e before suggesting you were a troll. People who say 'I was just out having a life' i.e. a jibe (especially when made anonymously) against those who post at the w/e are usually the saddest of them all. You claimed you were told to f**k off in an attempt to sway this thread. Show us where and how or fuckoffout of the discussion with your fake accusations. My email address is now showing. I created it whilst making this post. come on cache troll, show yourself to abc or are you scared of being 'outed' as a former employee

Indeed. It's a shame. I remember when I first came on these forums, I was warmly welcomed by Liana. Wow those were good days. I don't post anymore, since I was mistaken for Paul Greco, and told to 'f**k off' (Yeah, like he's the only one who uses Freeserve). I used to love the site (well, still do :o) but what's the point when mallice tips the scales?

If you allow a few wazzocks to chase you off you are silly. The forums are unmoderated and I hope they never are. You have to be able to live in the cut and thrust here but if you can't then perhaps the other forums are the place for you. It's no good whinging about it and hoping your whinge will change it, it won't. I hope you all atay and adjust to what is here, for the most part it is lively and entertaining. Other sites with moderated forums are like the dead zone.

No, that's untrue, I *could* take these forums. I could even take the mud slinging. One thing I couldn't take was when it all went to far. I've stopped entering my e-mail address. Want to know why? Because I started getting threatening e-mails... Now call me silly.

It's not an unpleasant side of ABC skeets, it's the users. ABC has provided a free and open forum for everyone to say as they please (the law allowing) and I wouldn't change it. I wouldn't want anyone to be barred from taking part either. Sometimes I've been the target and sometimes the marksman, it's called life. The most active people are always going to be those with the most to say and strong opinions, to restrain them would make this forum turgid and artificial. As the poster above says, there are four other forums here which are mostly trouble free and more to do with writing than this one. This is the site bear garden, be grateful it has one when you feel like being a bear. Personally I think you should stay here and contribute, I'm sure you could add to the colours.

Andy, I've had the threatening emails too (threats against my family), but to allow the sender to win is against my principles. I rarely enter my email address but it's on the site in my profile I think, and isn't hard to find.

It's against mine now, too, but when your only 17... this was a few years now, being older now I'd handle it differently...

LOL yeah well if I'd been mistaken for greco i think i'd feel like leaving too.

Fine by me Missi, but one Gripe about the noble ideal of free “anonymous” speech! I always put an email on my posts and have a Red Address. Many of you don't and therefore deny me the opportunity of “grabbing you by your “cyber necks” and giving you a good verbal shaking in a direct reply! In my non violent ways of course! So I think there would be less silliness if the site operators arranged it so you had to display a verifiable email address. Anyone can trace me easily. And just sometimes I would like to do the same so that I could deal with an offensive remark in my usual non violent manner, BUT CLOSEUP AND PERSONAL! If you know what I mean. What do you have to be afraid of those of you who show a black addresses? Hit and run squads? Don’t moderate it I agree but you should display a proper validated address! I think you would see a change then!

Ive had some truly truly awful emails, but I cant mask my email address for obvious reasons. I would hope that I still warmly welcome newcomers as Andy said, but I could cheerfully garotte quite a few of the point scoring wazzocks that waste so much time with buggering about. Dont leave Skeets.

There was talk about having to be a registered user and logged on to use the forums, making you more accountable. But that was a while ago now, back in the mists of time... I think the bottom line is the unpleasant posts won't go away, but they don't act as a good ad for the site really.

this may seem like a dumb question, but how do you display a validated 'red' address? often thought about that.

in the field where it says "your email" write your email address. That brings up your name as a red "clickable link" which automatically opens outlook or whatever, with the address in it, when someone clicks on it. Try it and see...

and dont ask about the email address, its a long story and she's long gone

ooh i say, it works thank you liana.

a pleasure, my little furry pumpkin. *sniggers*

*Splutters tea over monitor*

Hi Liana The first month I joined in on the site forums I received what I can only describe at Hate Mail! To my office, it was a clipping from a US gun magazine with a snippet about drive by shootings and a pathetic verse that suggested I was going to be taken out and beaten up on some dark night! And the boat that we use in the Marine Charity (shown on my company’s website) that I am a trustee of would be damaged or sunk deliberately. If you or Tony would like a copy I am happy to send you a Photostat, you may recognise the silly style, but I am going to retain the original because I have the idiots DNA on the stamp! It has a London post mark. What a welcome to a new writer to ABC eh? In my life I have been scared many times, but I will never be intimidated and that decided me to stay with the site. I am stubborn and will see things through. I think you have a bit of a problem with just a few silly people and you should make it tougher for them to do there silly pathetic tricks there must be an IT or pass word system that you can use to establish who these idiots are. As I say I am a non violent person but I won't be shoved around by a bunch of numbskulls! Who are really afraid of saying who they are! Why are the rest of you putting up with it? Bob Archell, of Leigh on Sea. Creekend Poet

thanks guys ok quick version my first email address me not know much bout puters she know lots she do my email funny funny ha ha her petname for me become my email funny funny ha ha belly wobble so much it hurt but nowadays i look back with a certain fondness and something inside me says it would be a shame to change it. or am i just lazy?

Liana I have also made some really good friends on ABC and it is sad that they are being troubled too. Creek

Final thought for the day on a depressing topic. If it's only "point scoring” as Liana suggests, I think the personalities on here are big enough to take that! If it ends up in personal abuse and in my case and by the sounds of it from others threats against them and their loved ones. Then ABC YOU HAVE TO CONTROL THIS SITE! Not suggesting you moderate it, I am against that but there should be some accountability of those that make those threats! If we have a situation where we never really know who is posting and playing silly games by forging someone else's identity then you are providing an environment for this sort of intimidation to breed! I am happy to have a discussion, I am happy to have a row, but I am not happy to have threats of harm or damage to my property or property owned by a Charity I support sent in the mail to my place of work or listen to the continual drivel and pure spite dished out by some of the anonymous cowards who when challenged by the Eds simply deny their involvement! So WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT ABC? The silence since 19.54 this evening has been deafening to say the least. Will it be business as usual? Letting these intellectual runts run amuck when the new site is up and running? Will the only genre available to readers be the self obsessed ramblings of a few manic uni students marking time at their parent’s expense while they sort their heads out? Or the few truly mad sado's who get their kicks driving people like Skeeter and Andy off the site? This is not David and Goliath here ABC you have the means to identify these people and to exclude them form the site, "if you wanted to"? I think it is about time you listened to your customers and dealt with this slimy little problem! So sorry Tony to put you on the peg but really what are you going to do about it? Meantime a “Challenge to the Sado Brigade”; feel like posting something clever on this subject of pissing people off to the point of them leaving? Then do it with a Red Email tag so we can have a fair exchange of views otherwise your view like you doesn’t count! I’ll count how many “brave” Sado’s put there heads above the trench in the morning. It will be interesting reading! Creek

Im not sure that anyone is able to send things actually in the mail to your home address as a result of you being on ABC Creek....unless you actually post your address up, there is no way that anyone can get hold of it, i promise you.

I'm probably over-sensitive but I have been really quite wounded by some of the remarks I have received on here - a lot of people seem to assume you have an ulterior motive for everything you say. In many cases these people sound like they don't write and despise people who do - they are extremely harsh in their criticism and never have any constructive advice to offer. Maybe that is their motivation - to spread unhappiness? I have been having some extremely interesting and productive discussions with other abc-ers and have been suddenly interrupted from nowhere by someone basically telling me to sod off! For no apparent reason. I mean, what did I do? Maybe this is an intrinsic fault of all forums - they tend to attract these slimy, over-intellectualized cowards with nothing to say or do, whose sole motivation in life is to prevent others from saying or doing anything.

ps im a uni student, and often a bit manic (managing 3 kids at the same time makes me so!! but i dont think i am self obsessed...)

PS What on Earth is a troll?

Hey Creaky, you sound like a man possessed. Skeeter and Andy haven't left the site, they have said they won't join in on the forums. They aren't the first and won't be the last, in the main they stop for a while then return. There is always going to be a few people who either disagree with the way the site is run or don't have the stomach for the General Discussion forum. You make the mistake of believing it's possible to identify posters with 100% acuracy. It isn't, and if it was it would not help much. Determined people will always find a way of circumventing controls. Mostly anti-social posters get fed up and find somewhere new to invade, it's a part of life. I've no doubt I will eventually attract some negative criticism for this post, and I could name the critics to a man, but I won't let them bother me. Whoever sent the mail to your firm is most likely a social misfit that wouldn't have the balls to look you in the face.

Thank you Liana and Missi My email address is part of a company domain, so you don't have to be Sherlock to identify my company from the address, the web address and the email are the same. You can view our company profile and view details of our charitable works. I will mail ABC a copy of the two page letter, it is quite spiteful. It was sent to my firm not my home. I don't mean all students Liana, I think you know that! For the last two years I have had to relearn how to be creative with my life, before that for about 42 years I guess I was like Robert Mitcham in the film I forget what it is called now but he had "Love and Hate" tattooed on each hand and was either extremely good or extremely bad! So I know what is running through these facile minds and I know how hey work I really do assure you! You have to bring them out and put them into an arena where they can't do their evil business and walk away playing you and the ABC system for fools. They won't respect that, and to be honest I don't either! Make it hard enough for them and they will leave and you will be doing them a kindness because they are feeding off this emotion of trouble. So the choice is let them run the Threads and have people like Skeet and others leave (I accept that they may come back Missi) or make it slightly harder for them to log on in anonymity. Sorry but I don't see that doing nothing about this is an option, but that is my opinion only! Don't worry "Hate" is firmly overpowered by love in my head, and anyway I am going to go and hit the stuffing out of a large bag with a bamboo sword for about an hour! That always does the trick for me and then some light sleep! Then I am going to spend the day outside! Sorry if I gave anyone concern but still feel that ABC is worth fighting for even though I am a pacifist none of us should be push overs for these destructive minds. God Bless Creek

andy, could you point me to the post where you were told to eff off as I can't seem to find it? or were you using a different name back then? What on earth did you say to provoke such a response? Creeky, it doesn't matter how tightly controlled this place becomes, there is still nothing to stop someone sending you anon. email is there? From what I've heard, nasty emails rarely come from those accused of trolling but from those who display their email address, act all nice, then stab in you in the back from a hotmail or yahoo addy. they are the same people who use the one star button for revenge. As for hate mail to your work address? I think linking that to abc is a stretch of the imagination don't you? Who did you upset so much in your first weeks to make them go to all that effort? Could it not be linked to real life or another website before you came here? I'm not saying it isn't abc orientated but I find it surprising given your popularity on these threads.

Creek, I've battled with these cowardly grafitti writers ever since I've been on this site (about two and a half years at a guess) and I'm here to tell you that they will never come out and discuss the options with you. The irony of people joining a discussion forum and asking people to discuss various topics while secretly offering nothing more than thrown insults from behind the cloak of anonymity shows a yellow streak a mile wide. They can truly nail their colours to the mast of pusillanimity. But I'll tell you more. Not only do they not have the backbone to stand up and say exactly what they mean to the person they abuse, but if they wanted to they could really show their colours by turning up at an ABCtales event, looking you in the eye and saying exactly what they think of you in person. This, they will never, ever do. I've come across these people in other walks of life. I was on the road in America for five years. For three of those years I "sat ad" in a nerby hotel three days a week, hiring new people. Now the very nature of the ad meant that I received a number of threatening or obscene phone calls. Possibly once a week. And I ALWAYS challenged them to come down and say that to my face, telling them which room number I was in. And they ALWAYS threatened to come on down and bust my grape. I'd say, "No you won't. You're a brave man on the phone, but when you go to bed tonight, just take a good look in the mirror and realise that you're no man at all. Because you're scared to come and say that to my face, aren't you?" "Mo, fo," they'd say, "Ama goan come down there an' ....." and so on. "Bring it on down, " I'd say. And do you know what? In three years, nobody ever turned up. Can you see the same pattern here? Now I have my own reasons for not wishing to attend any more ABCtales events, so I'm not challenging anyone personally, but can you see the same mentality of the kind of people who stick chewing gum on seats and watch some poor sod sit on them?

Waldemar I suggest you say what you feel and to hell with what anyone says, as long as it's not an unprovoked attack. Trolls are people who post anonymously but have nothing nice or interesting to say. Be intrigued Missi, I am an enigma

Hi folks. I'm struggling for words to add my bit to this thread. I actually thought about starting a similar thread to this - but never quite got to it. I'm thankful to Skeeter for starting it - but I'm fearful of him/her leaving the site and deleting all his/her postings before I've had time to read them. I've been writing poetry since January and posting them here for the last three (ish) months. I couldn't believe what I'd discovered here. An absolute treasure of poems and short stories. I spent hours reading them enthralled - I never found a bad one because even the mediocre ones came from somebody's heart - and that's good enough for me. Then the site went doolally while it was being updated - such is life - I'm happy to wait because the snippets I've picked up concerning its new functions have excited me. So I started visiting the forums. Got involved in a good healthy debate and exchanged a little light-hearted banter - great stuff. Then I noticed obscenities being thrown around. Such is life - I can be as obscene as the next person if I so desire - I generally don't desire because I've probably left most of that behind years ago. Then I noticed vitriol and name-calling being slung around - such is life - man, can I sling around some vitriol if I so desire - but I don't want to - again, I probably left most of that behind in the school playground 40-odd years ago. Then I noticed something really strange - apparently individuals can just invent a new email address and a silly, childish new name and instantly hook up to the forums and create all sorts of mayhem - even impersonate another individual - just like that! I can't believe that can possibly be allowed now folks. I'm only a big daft bloke and I don't know a lot, but that is unacceptable. I'm all for free speech - in fact I'll fight anyone for the right to have my say but that is unacceptable. Is it not possible, in this brave new cyber-world of ours, to perhaps require posters to have a certifiable email address? Is it not possible to have a 24 hour delay on newly registered individuals from posting (can such individuals wait 24 hours to spread their mischief - or will they get fed up and not bother?) Is it not possible to ban instantly such individuals, or to delete their postings instantly? I'm not a prude - I can be as big and ugly as anyone - but I just don't want to be part of this situation. My wife and children visit this site to read stories - I just don't want them reading all this crap that I see on these forums. What do you reckon? Am I wrong? Am I just a big daft naive plonker? Should I just sod off somewhere else? Somebody please give me a reason to stay with ABC Tales.

Shack, Skeeter, Creekend and the older ones on here they know who they are so can't name all. Reasons to stay!! from a very selfish point be cause I !!!! want you to stay, its now 4:30am and have just read this post and the tears are streaming down this lonely old ladys face who every day is hard pressed to even want to stay in this wicked lonely world. I found ABC over two tears ago now and as someone has already said it was lovely in those days and on here is what keeps me going day after day as I have nothing else to turn to and in that time I have seen quite a few nice one leave and shed a tear every time although I have never said before. Believe me I always know who the nice ones are same as I know the nasty ones, the nice ones I see as my friends someone I can have a word with every day or just read there posts, the nice one's who give me a reason to get up and start another day, now that might seem sad and pathetic to you but its very real to me hence this post. I did say it was a selfish point but please!! don't let the nasty ones win as my life will go right out the window also it will only benfit them!! not you!! although I have thought for a long time now ABC should be doing something about it but then what do I know. This post could seem like blackmail but although I see it as selfish its also a very real cry from the heart... xxxx

why I have I not had any hate mail? sheesh you guys have mellowed.

You're not a big daft plonker Shacky, but you are wrong as far as I can see. We've had these discussions regularly ever since the site instituted the forums back in March 2001. What I would say to you is tell your wife and kids to stay off the general discussion board. Explain why and what is likely to be found there. You can't cripple this forum to your own taste, it isn't fair on the vast majority here who love it for it's freedom. Yes, there are things to upset those of a sensitive nature but it is also very creative in it's own way. The arts have fought against censorship since the beginning of time, I find it ironic that those that are supposed to support art now want to cripple it. I know the stuff you want stopped is not 'art' but it is part of the free thinking state of mind that art emanates from. I'm not trying to trivialise your concerns, just point out that this is how it works so safeguard your self, don't try and change things to suit. What you are suggesting won't work anyway, I hope this doesn't come across as 'take it or eff off' because that's not how I mean it. To add to JC's comment about popularity, you have to accept that the more popular you become the more enemies you make. Cest la vie. Oh and a good reason to stay here is to add your contribution not only to the body of work (which incidentally is considered by most of the users on THIS forum at least, as an almost seperate entity) but also to the discussions here. I'm sure the likes of you and creaky have a lot to offer.

Unfortunately... and I hate that word it smacks of insincerity...its going to happen. No different than going to the local or walking down the street, we all meet societal-suicides at some point. I don't believe banishing them is going to help, there's always a way in and expulsion will only serve to amplify their need for antagonism. Like the guy who flicks ash in your handbag when your not looking. ( Christ I drink in some odd places). The chitchat behind your back, right up to the sick minds who, hurl bricks through windows and make it their life's work to devastate lives. I don't believe all encompassing acceptance is the answer either. In all they're distanced behind a screen, ever-expanding, as they twist actuality to inflate their somewhat distorted and flaccid ego's. Let them inflate sooner or later they're bound to strike a sharp object and explode! (Censored for general viewing). The only resistance is to re'envisage this kind of hostility and limit its impact on yourself. [%sig%]

Skeeter All I can say is the world is fully of idiots whose only joy in life is to make it miserable for others. Don't let them win

I have every sympathy with those who receive hate mail, it must be an awful experience...but just for the record in all the time I have been posting on this forum I have never received any...and of course I have never sent any. Being of a slightly paranoid disposition, I have a horrible feeling this thread might have been inspired - in part at least - by my stupid discus joke...if it was I am very, very sorry... I think there are two different things being discussed here... on the one hand there is a kind of forum e-terrorism that takes the form of spiteful, anonymous postings...for me and I suspect 99.99 per cent of us that is unacceptable... on the other hand there is good-natured leg-pulling and robust banter...personally I cannot see anything wrong with that...indeed I would be extremely flattered if someone were to take the p.iss out of my postings... my feeling is that if we cannot make and take the occasional joke at each other's expense, this could become a very antiseptic, boring and ultimately dishonest kind of forum...

Lexy, I like your metaphors and imagery, although I think you may have missed the point. These people don't throw bricks through windows (although they would dearly love to) or flick ash in handbags. The reason why they don't is because they're scared of being caught. And believe it or not, they wouldn't even join the uni debating team in case someone opposed their views, or their ignorance of the world in general were exposed. But the Internet has opened up a whole new world for them, for they can throw metaphorical bricks and flick metaphorical ash becauyse they're safe! All their life they've been waiting for this. The opportunity to say whatever they want to their betters. Suddenly they need no longer go eyeball to eyeball - or even risk it, for they are at heart cowards. They can just write it from the safety of their room across town or even 200 or 3000 miles away.

Yes I do have to say that hate emails are cowardly and uncalled for. It's something that I would never do, but then I wouldn't describe myself as cowardly.

I've hardly noticed any nastiness on this board, so I'm starting to wonder what the fuss is all about. It's true that I don't read all the threads - I open threads that sound as if they might be literary, witty, or human. (Sometimes the title of a thread warns you that it's going to be inane.) My advice is, if you don't like the tone of a post, skip over it, the same way you'd step away from an irritating bloke in the pub. I join in on these boards for two reasons: I don't write non-fiction, and I think it's good for a fiction writer to try writing plain English now and again, so even a small bland post like this is a writing exercise for me; also, I'm grateful to abc for displaying my work for free and for the kindness I've received behind the scenes, and so I feel I owe the abc community some support. d.beswetherick.

The thing I like best about the gen/diss forum is that it is often lively and funny. Sometimes I have several bouts of tittering or even guffawing while reading the threads. I don't like the nastiness that crops up from time to time but I suppose there's no point in taking it personally or getting upset, or even getting drawn in, which I have once or twice. When that happened I stopped reading the threads for ages. The reward was smaller than the anxiety. But today I had a bit of a read this afternoon and found the rewards to be much more significant than the anxiety. Keep on it, don't give up. Stay with Jay. Stay with various poets and writers and argumentative opinionated bigheads, lovely balding folk and those hairy ones and the fairly thoroughly disguised and the transparent. Stay. Write. It's like being in a horrible big family where everyone has a link to everyone like-it-or-not. Stay and make me laugh out loud when reading witty, irascible, irrelevant, gossipy thread-things. You-will you-will you-will (ad infinitum) as the tax-form woman from Father Ted urged us.....

Well 'Andy' or whoever it was must be away for the weekend - although it was probably a troll posting in an attempt to stir things up. Reading this thread again it seems that people are most upset by not knowing who is posting ie lack of email addy. now, i've nothing against skeeter, but I'm going to use him as an example. Who is skeeter? A bloke (we assume from his posts) with an email addy of damavand or something like that. Is that his/her real name? of course not. Sure, he/she has an email address that probably works and he/she posts work on the site under the name 'skeeter', but who is skeeter? I'm sure some of you know his/her real name but as far as i am concerned he/she could be anyone. Now, obviously skeeter is genuine, but do you see the point? anyone can create a screen name on abc, or any other site, supply a newly created hotmail or yahoo addy, post some work (for validity) then abuse the hell out of the site. Under a controlled forum they get banned. Big deal. they sign up again the next day under a new email addy. Forget IP tracking. Dynamic IP's change everytime they log on. Do you see the problem creek, and others? How do you create an open and honest forum when some members use their real names while others(skeeter for example) do not? btw, i could have used Pais for my example. Who the hell is that? Yes, there is an email address. So what? It could be the pope for all i know or care. I've nothing against Pais. she (he?) makes me laugh. but who the hell is it? Does it matter? Oh yes, apparently you need to insert an email addy so those who feel hurt can send you abuse. That's what this thread is really about. the true bullies on this site and elsewhere use email as their weapon - in through the back door whilst smiling in the open and complaining about 'trolls'. Tossers.

Curious There are a lot of tossers in this world, so obviously some will end up on this site. You've got neither an email addy or a real name, are you one of them or frightened that you'll be abused? Are you giving an answer to the question?

It doesn't matter Sadbelle, JC is just elaborating on what I've already said, it isn't possible to control those that don't want to be controlled. To keep bringing this up just feeds the 'nasties' sense of success. Forget about them and take 'Bessys' advice. Either scroll past and ignore them or, if you feel up to it, join in and have your say. For the record I am, George Van Win I live near Chelmsford in Essex My user names are Mississippi/Ladywriter/ Pendragon (plus a multiude of troll names that some of you are aware of and for which I make no apologies) My email address is desperate_van@ontel.net.uk Anybody wishing to mail me or abuse me is welcome to.