I think if we're being honest most of us would like to get published. I know I would. Posting stories here is fun and rewarding but where are the hungry literary agents itching to get us to the next level? Living it up in Tuscany most likely.
I'll add Katie Price's Autobiography. But quality is still important. I agree with Sting that the X Factor is just televised kareoke and whilst there is nothing new about manufactured bands (remember the monkees) it is now at a different level. But I disagree that this entirely crushes 'real' talent. I do believe that quality will win through even though it may be the trash that makes the biggest money.
JK Rowling and Dan Brown are anomalies. There are probably fewer multi-millionaires amidst writers than there are amidst lottery players expressed as a percentage. Most writers are content with being able to make a reasonable living and few can do this on book sales alone. I hope one day to write a book on bioethics for teenagers thinking about a career in medicine but I am not going to be able to retire on it.
The average advance for a first novel is is £5-10k and then you might get 10% royalties and sell 20k copies in pbk. Considering the amount of time it takes to write and draft and re-draft a novel, for all but the most fortunate few writers, it isn't particularly lucrative.
jude
I would also add that whilst Dan Brown and Pam Ayres can, on one level be considered 'trash' they are both good at doing what they're trying to do! Ayres is doing light-hearted comic verse and Brown, despite the groaning awfulness of his prose has a real knack with the thriller plot. I don't think this kind of trash (which I confess to having enjoyed in the past) is directly comparable to the dross on websites like ABC!
jude
Since you bring up music as an analogy. I'm off tonight to pay a very nice lady more than I earn an hour to tell me what I'm doing wrong playing the violin. I have no ambition to ever get paid for playing the violin but I would like to do it well and I know from experience that I won't unless somebody who knows what they're talking about tells me what I'm doing wrong.
The same is largely true of writing.
Well, whilst Eric is welcome to post here, I don't think the site can and should offer what he's looking for. Eric wants to hear from other people who share his feelings, so he should perhaps post his poem on a bereavement newsgroup. If a teenager wants to pour her angsty heart out that she self harms and has an eating disorder, there are websites for that too. We are not an emotional support or recovery through writing network!
jude
Bad or good word?
Siphuncle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siphuncle
Can it be used as an expletative, to win an argument or in a poem; who cares? Eric might like it, I do.
Hello!
Long time no see all!
Market research is a pretty simple task. You find everyone that you can that is doing something similar to what you're thinking of doing, then examine three things:
1)How many people they do their thing with and how much they charge
2)How they make their thing work
3)How your thing relates to their thing
Generally, your thing as a new thing will have to be a bit different to their thing otherwise people will have no reason to use your thing. Your thing might be exactly the same, but if it is you'll either have to be cheaper or better at advertising your thing.
Regarding Eric Spoons, the practice of critiquing is always about trying to help a piece of work be the best it can be, within the terms set out by the person who is making it.
If the person wants to write a novel and be famous, then they need to know that their lack of thought about dialogue or their poor grammar stands in their way of getting to that stage.
Similarly, if a person wants to get their poetry published, they need to know if their poetry stands up well against other poetry that it will be in competition with for space in magazines or anthologies.
There is no getting away from the fact that the skill of being able to enter into the process of being critiqued is a necessary one if you want to grow as a writer.
Writing is a craft, not just inspiration.
It isn't elitist to want to help people get better at writing. It's trying to help them to develop their craft to a point where they can achieve the things that they want to achieve by their writing.
That's how you judge. The difficulty is that people often get confused about what they want to do with their writing, so the skill is guiding them gently and respectfully toward developing and bettering their work.
The worst thing you can do is set someone up to fail by telling them their work is brilliant, then sniggering at the fact that someone with less time and less interest in making sure that they aren't ripped to shreds than goes ahead and does just that.
Critiquing involves the principle of charity, and assuming that someone is trying their best and is trying to do what they say they're trying to do.
I enjoy critiquing and trying to give people a hand to find a way off the plateau of 'my friends say I should publish it' onto the foothills of 'I've got something here, but I'm really going to have to work at it to get to the top of where I could be with it'.
I miss having the chance to do that sometimes.
How're you all keeping?
Mark
Hello Mark
As usual, enviably clearheaded and sensible.
This should be the new motto of the site when it comes to commenting on others' work:
"The practice of critiquing is always about trying to help a piece of work be the best it can be, within the terms set out by the person who is making it."
You are missed.
Ben
Indeed he is - but the harking back to the 'good old days' also harks back to the time when there were three or four full time employees. Now there is just me on an unpaid basis doing this when I can in between trying to eke out a living - this should no be forgotten!
Extra Time is no more and I am rarely up in London - I'd love to do another London bash but it needs organising and we have to find somewhere suitable that won't charge us money - they get to keep the bar takings and we keep the entrance money. It needs to be relatively central and near a tube station - these places are not easy to find but if anyone knows of one then we should have an evening in January. I'm happy to sort out readers etc.
I think that people do come and go. It's always sad when someone who has put a lot of time and effort into the site moves on but it seems that nothing is for ever - most of them pop back from time to time but it seems that the ABC 'thing' lasts between two and three years for most people - it's just me and jude who are here from the beginning, I think!
We do desperately want to develop and grow - and The Big Issue was good in that respect but we can't expect that every month! I am now in discussion with a group of people on a Student Writer of the Year prize which, if it comes to anything, will bring us to the attention of everyone on a creative writing course in this country and that should bring in a wealth of excellent new writers. But these things take time and effort and that, inevitably, is limited whilst I run this on my own with magnificent help from FTSE, David K, Ewan and others - most of them on this thread.
There are a number of bars that would give free hire dependent on a minimum spend. The minimum spend would be higher on a Friday or Saturday. What was the minimum spend at Xtra time so I can use that as a benchmark when making enquiries?!
jude
...
This event could possibly be a 10th birthday event and hopefully bring together as many regulars past and present as possible. We can reach some of the oldtimers via Facebook.
Do people think this is a good idea? Would you come? How much can you drink?
There was no minimum spend midweek - which is why we went for then. But for a 10 year bash it'll probably be best on a Friday or Saturday or the out of towners will moan!
The main thing is to check that the acoustics are OK - there's nothing worse than trying to listen to someone reading and all you can hear is the thump of the music and the braying of the crowd in the bar.
"Extra Time is no more and I am rarely up in London - I'd love to do another London bash but it needs organising and we have to find somewhere suitable that won't charge us money - they get to keep the bar takings and we keep the entrance money. It needs to be relatively central and near a tube station - these places are not easy to find but if anyone knows of one then we should have an evening in January. I'm happy to sort out readers etc."
I recommend the Cross Kings (http://www.thecrosskings.co.uk/) or the Green Note (http://www.greennote.co.uk/).
Have had more than 90 at midweek literature events at both in the last year - it's a bit of squeeze at the Green Note.
Both would be available free midweek (on the basis of decent bar income). Unlikely to be free for weekend.
I had no idea you'd had events at The Cross Kings, David. I would have come along. I work just around the corner on Pentonville Road and absolutely love that pub. I get down there as often as I can convince people to join me, or just sit outside with a book by myself if they won't.
I can't praise it enough.
Ben
Pages