Religion vs Paganism.

Well, that's not the primary definition, Lola, except as a perjorative term for people who won't follow a monotheistic faith. People who would define themselves as pagan usually have some polytheistic or pre-christian belief which manifests itself in various new age kinds of ways.

That's jolly decent of you Jude. *Gets out Bilbo Baggins costume and heads for Stonehenge*

Is there a word for worshipping yourself? I mean I am a mini God to countless little creatures... I can snuff them out with a thumb, torture them if needs be, put them in situations of my choosing... Just as well I am a benign God, so long as the little buggers prostrate to me every now and then.

Easter is tied in with the spring equinox not Jewish passover...spring being the season of new life and such...though Neil, I must say I like the idea of a Christianised woodstock! I keep looking over my shoulder...I must be careful who's watching whilst I'm here in the convent! j

Isn't our Easter the first Sunday on or after the first full moon in Aries? Any chance that the Solstice at Stonehenge might be televised, Jude?

I thought I'd better add that it was just that I was interested in seeing your brother in his Gandalph costume... honest!

Last Sunday I took my turn at carrying a seven-foot high cross through the streets of Old Trafford on a "walk of witness". On Thursday I got my feet washed by the curate's pretty young wife as part of the Maundy Thursday service (in case you're wondering, you wash the person to your left, so I got my wife). Even Anglicans do weird things at times.

Brilliant Neil...us Catholics select just 12 folk whose feet are to be washed by the priest! Yours sounds much better! Smilie...you are right...it is the first Sunday after the first full moon of something or other. i did a walk of Witness in Hemel Hempstead...but I did not take a turn in carrying the cross as I was wearing a nice TJ Lewin shirt! For all those who want to see me at stonehenge... purely for anthorological interest in my expression of past and present ages of worship (naked) ...it is pay per view...£2.50 for the evening...all proceeds going to Mother Theresa's missionary charity.

Anthorological?

sorry anthropological...i studied the Anthropology of religion this term! typo!

Ah, I just can't spell as my attempt at mannequins on the Dr Who thread demonstrated to the world ;o) What's your ideas and feelings on the return of eugenics, Jude? I notice that an Irish Cardinal has been quoted as saying "Human beings therefore become instruments in the hands of other human beings. That way lies eugenics, and we know from German history where that leads." in relation to the advances in embryo selection, embryonic research and, perhaps most relevantly to Catholics, modern attitudes to abortion.

I happened across an Open University prog last night which included an expaination of why there are several different human blood types. It made me realise that many genetic alterations are not God trying to improve the stock (unless it's by diversity) but simply bad gene copying. So it makes sense to me that we should continue to be involved in trying to get rid of some of the worst genetic faults. The question, as always nowaday, is how far should we go? [%sig%]

It's worth mentioning that America continued research into using Eugenics in an attempt to remove morons from the US gene pool - if they had suceeded I wonder who would currently be president :o)

My feelings are mixed and I am not at liberty to vocalise all of them! I think Eugenics...treating humanity as a commodity which we can tailor to suit the current market...is wrong I also think that any research which leads to the discarding of unwanted human embryos is wrong. This belief...partly stems from the fact that I believe that human beings have a soul from conception but i don't expect everyone to agree with me and I have no other argument so there is no point countering this belief to me! ..but manipulating genes is not in itself wrong. Much of the opposition to this is based on predjudice and emotion rather than any strong scientific fact, or well thought through argument. Essentially, people just DON'T LIKE the idea in the same way that using leeches to suck out poison induces a certain amount of repulsion despite the whole being unquestionably good. I find the quote you give fascinating... "Human beings therefore become instruments in the hands of other human beings. " Because I think the word "instruments" is too broad a generalisation and is being used specifically to induce negativity and repulsion. It isn't this simple. Is a baby, selected at embryonic stage because his bone marrow will be an exact match for his brother who has a disorder requiring a transplant an instrument? In one sense yes...he is fulfilling a need of his parents and brother. But will he be any less loved? And isn't every baby an instrument in a sense? If he or she is wanted, we can perhaps presume that he or she is fulfilling other parental needs...the need to give love, the need to pass on genes, the need for care and affection in old age. Do we not all then have an instrumental or teleological value? Is being an instrument necessarily bad. St Francis prayer begins...Lord make me an instrument of your peace! If children are brought into the world as instruments of love, peace and healing for other people...why is this so bad?

I think freedom to do what we want, which perhaps hit it's hey day in the late 60's and early 70's, is slowly being replaced by laws which are made to 'encourage' us to do what the 'powers that be' decide is best. Whether that's a good thing or bad.. it's as inevitable as globalisation. So I doubt that in the end it will make much difference what the people want. However much politicians might pretend that we have a say in important issues they will do what they want in the end regardless of public opinion - as demonstrated by the invasion of Iraq. Eugenics, like GM foods, will come through the back door if it doesn't come through the front.

Mykle, your bloody obssession with Iraq is boring in the extreme. Haven't you got another hobby-horse to ride?

I think Iraq is an excellent example because there was a definite majority against it - pretty much worldwide - and yet it happened anyway. The fact that in the end the only excuse that was left was that it was to bring them the benefits of democracy seemed very ironic to me.

And why don't you use Mykle a your name anymore? i mean we know it's you.

Pay attention Flash, I've already explained :o)

I haven't got time to read all your drivel Smikey :0-)

Well why should you care then Flash?

I wish hadn't bothered asking now.

:o)

Missi hitler spoils another thread**duh**

Super heroes aren't that easily hurt, Jasper.

:0-)

There was NOT a majority world wide. That's just another piece of crap you've jumped on. The world population is currently approxiamately 6 billion, and you're saying over 3 billion opposed the war. What a load of old cock that is. Still most of what you say is in a similar vein. He doesn't use 'mykle' anymore Flashy, in the hopes that all the newbies here won't identify him with all the crap he spouted last time he was here. Some hopes.

Bored again eh, George ;o)

And you tits think mastermind is just a joke!

Not bored, not by a long way, just feel the need to keep prats like you, lola, casey and the Olympic *winker*, *Get it?*, *my point* and all round despised tosser, on your collective toes. It's a shitty job but someone has to do it.

I got to know my brother over the last few years after years of not knowing my family. He is a bhudist and he put all my bad fortune down to karma conveniently forgetting that he witnessed the abuse i suffered as a child. He has hurt me so much since getting in touch with them. He has no clue of the pain inside me and the pain he and my immediate family caused me recently. My mum and dad where catholics and used to drink a lot and took out a lot of there agression on me growing up while going to mass to ask for forgiveness. When i became so emotionally F****D years later through all the abuse in my life they turned there backs on me and left me for dead on the streets, yet still went to mass and all tried to kid on what ha dhappened to me never, thuis creating many menatl and emotional health problems for me. This is typical of many west of Scotland catholic hypocrits. You can see this by the amount of glaswegians in prisons, addicted to drugs and on the streets all over the UK. I never lost my love for Jesus through it all but won't enter a catholic church nowadays and certainly not in glasgow. Over the last few years i managed to pick myself up, still work for my charity and in this time was sending my mum flowers, poetry and trying to get them to understand that it is not a childs fault and that children are not born evil but of course they shut the door on my face and hid behind a church. But Fake religion should not be confused with the true word of God. I am in no way religious but believe firmly in God and that the word of Jesus is real. A lot of us practice the work of God although unknowingly, i do although i know. But if you are willing not to stand on another person and understand and try and help then i believe truly there are better things ahead. god is Good and not to be tied in to fake religions i think this is what i am trying to say.

Now why couldn't he have told me that , instead of getteing all awkward? I think i'll call him smiykal or smucky or smirkal...ooooo the fun!!! I take it i'm flush, Jaspiee?

Follow this thread and you will see that the tosser on this thread is YOU George and your parrot opinionless sidekick Flash... once again, you have interrupted a discussion you had no interest in taking part in... just so that you can bandy insults at people you don't like.. keeping old enmiities going.... You don't speak for everyone here.. certainly not me. Who appointed you to do a 'job'?

Gerry, no one appointed anyone to do anything here, least of all you. My reference to a 'job' was not a reference to an actual job, but then you know that, you are just responding to me as you have in the past because you either disagree with me or hold some other enmity for me. That's OK, I respect your right to say whatever you wish to me, along with everyone else, it doesn't make you right anymore than me. As it happens in the past you have posted your share of 'tosser' posts as most would agree, ( I seem to remember that you very recently made a rather snidey comment about Liana, inferring that Andrew was a bad choice of man. He is in fact superior and preferable to you in every respect). Actually, I responded to mykles repetitive remarks about Iraq on this thread and the forum in general. Whether you like it or not, I shall respond to whomsoever I wish, whenever I wish, including you. Whether or not YOU believe it has any bearing on the discussion at hand is immaterial to me. You know as well as i do that topics here change all the time. I thank you.

Like I said Gerry, he's bored :)

oh actually theres something better to add. My so called brother the bhudist instigates that my child hood was down to my last life ?????????? eh, imagine saying that to your own brother. Now you can start to see where my difficulties came from.

You wish.

George: you keep making the point that there was not a majority against the invasion of Iraq and I suppose that technically you could be right - but I mean that there was a majority, a very large majority, of those people who had an opinion either way, against the invasion! I seem to remember that you predicted that America would be out of Iraq within a year and of course they have been there over two years already - but then you've always been better at throwing stones than thinking.

The majority that YOU refer to is, if anything, only a majority of those that could be arsed to speak up. That doesn't mean that those that didn't had no opinion on the subject. If the Iraqis had stopped fighting each other over who is going to be the next dictator the Americans, (along with the British, Italians and all the other nationalities that are there, because they also agreed the problem needed sorting out) would have been long gone. I have no wish to pursue this crap argument further, we went over all that last year and you are just as set in your views as I am. We will never agree, on this or anything else for that matter. I believe you are ill-informed and naive, and no doubt you think the same of me. Having said that, if you insist on resurrecting Iraq at every opportunity I shall feel obliged to call you out. My thinking abilities are not in question by anyone except the few here that disagree with me. Cest la vie. I really couldn't care less.

"I seem to remember that you very recently made a rather snidey comment about Liana, inferring that Andrew was a bad choice of man. He is in fact superior and preferable to you in every respect" You are a fool George, the comment I made about Liana was meant as a tongue-in-cheek one and in reference to her own habit of her being slightly derogatory of her past relationships on this forum over the years. It was not a snide dig at Liana, whom I like and as far as I know am on good terms with, and certainly not at Andrew whom I have never met but have equally come to like and respect on here... As for you, who is it who call his wife at every opportunity a 'terrorist'.... despite having lived umpteen years with her. You think that reflects well on you? Either way, you come out looking stupid. Has anyone told you that? Well it is my self appointed role to now prick your bubble. See how you like it being on the receiving end. And another thing, that your quote above perfectly illustrates... you live in this perfectly hierarchical world that you have crafted with 'superiors' above you and those you regard as your 'inferiors' beneath you... as you have made clear many times here, there are lives you consider worthless compared to your own... (which makes you look doubly ridiculous when you take on the royals/class sytem, or the 'caste' sytems... as your mind seems to work in the same manner that spawns those sort of attitudes in the first place) So who is at the bottom of your pile George? 'Retards'? Your word. There is no worse a bigot than one that knows 'his place'.

On reflection, I take back everything below as unwise and uncalled for. My apologies, George. Lets try and leave it at that. "As for you, who is it who call his wife at every opportunity a 'terrorist'.... despite having lived umpteen years with her. You think that reflects well on you? Either way, you come out looking stupid. Has anyone told you that? Well it is my self appointed role to now prick your bubble. See how you like it being on the receiving end. And another thing, that your quote above perfectly illustrates... you live in this perfectly hierarchical world that you have crafted with 'superiors' above you and those you regard as your 'inferiors' beneath you... as you have made clear many times here, there are lives you consider worthless compared to your own... (which makes you look doubly ridiculous when you take on the royals/class sytem, or the 'caste' sytems... as your mind seems to work in the same manner that spawns those sort of attitudes in the first place) So who is at the bottom of your pile George? 'Retards'? Your word. There is no worse a bigot than one that knows 'his place'."

I've only just realised that the question makes no sense - as Neil points out near the top - there are lots of pagan religions. I think the questioner probably meant Christian religions v paganism. Perhaps there isn't that much difference since our resident nun is set to appear naked at Stonehenge. Come to think of it that's a jolly good reason to prefer the Druid service to a Christian one :)

Tosser? Missi's Sidekick? Oh well 1leg my opinion of you is that you're a slimy,snidey, sleazeball and a dickhead. I imagine that won't be popular opinion of you here. *sniggers*

>> There is no worse a bigot than one that knows 'his place'." << And no doubt geography was your best subject! It's always been my contention that the words of an angry person are always more honest than the measured words of a smiling face. It's an old political ploy to say what you want and then offer an apology and retraction. The words still stand. For the record, I haven't 'lived umpteen years' with the terrorist (a term I choose to use in a slightly humourous way), I have shared a house with her, there's a vast difference, but maybe one you wouldn't understand. The reasons for your remarks about the 'royals/class system' become clearer with the inclusion of 'caste'. None of my comments regarding anything on this forum is a reference to anyone here unless specifically mentioned. Yes, there are people I feel are my superiors and also those I feel are inferior, I am no different to anyone else here in that respect, it also just happens to be true. So what? There are also lives I feel are worthless, though not compared to mine, just worthless in human terms. There is nothing you have said to me on this site, or in person, that hasn't been said to me a thousand times before, and like everyone else I select the bits I feel relevant and discard the rest. It's not within your power or ability to prick what you refer to as my 'bubble', purely because the 'bubble' is a figment of your imagination, so you see I don't feel that I've received anything from you. Your rant at me tells others here more about you than it does about me. I will however concede that I am sometimes a fool. I see it as proof of my membership of the human race. It would be so easy for me to apologise for my words above as you have done, but it wouldn't erase the words. Perhaps it would be better for all of us to sleep on it before we reply. Perhaps I should also have left the last word with you.

"I imagine that won't be popular opinion of you here. *sniggers*" This is a discussion board, not a popularity contest. There you go go again, head bobbing up and down in tandem with what you think to be 'the crowd;.. you remind me of the big awkward boy that stands behind the school bully.. doing all the gestures... from a safe distance. Have you ever tried holding an opinion that is not your own (false aggression is not an opinion). Try it, you may find it refreshing... liberating even. As for George. I object to you using the 'we' mantle as you have done on many a occasion when you keep attacking those you dislike 'for sport'... do so if you wish, however it is misleading (for newcomers) to claim it on others behalf. This place is a free for all as you say, we do not need self appointed policeman strutting around doing us 'all' a favour..

>> ...I object to you using the 'we' mantle... << followed by >> ...we do not need self appointed policeman ... << Yes Gerry, I see your point!

Is this 1leg throwing one of his legendary wobblies?

It's not worth the effort, Gerry! I think Flash is just trying to be amusing - but failing dismally. George just delights in winding people up... You've made your point - now it's time to r-e-l-a-x, chill and finish off your Easter eggs (if you haven't sent them all to Liana ;o)

Och Aye.. I have had a foul day. My sincere apologies to both George and Flash... I think I have rather overegged my point.

Quote My sincere apologies to both George and Flash... I think I have rather overegged my point. End quote tell us something new. Quote (the ridiculous picture of middle aged men in tight fitting school boy shorts, tossing insults in a school playgroundf comes to mind) End Quote 1legspider, you are a fool.