I visited the tented village yesterday

15 posts / 0 new
Last post
I visited the tented village yesterday

Exactly as I thought, a group of totally disparate people without a single voice. Pro religion, anti religion, anti Israel /pro Palestine, one guy who was living in a tent because he was an East African refugee. I did see the same rather insidious message in a few places - we don't own property - we are not part of the capitalist system and the the single word "occupy" on a number of tents.

Are some of these the people who have been squatting in (often not empty) homes? Almost certainly. Are they part of the capitalist system - of bloody course they are unless they have a farm somewhere growing their own food and none of them accept state benefits and none of them accept handouts of food and money from people who are part of the system.

Not a single cogent message, not a single cogent voice but plenty of school age children who are barely being schooled. As I have said , if they could speak with a single voice and explain why they are there and what and how they would change society then I would listen but until then, let it snow, let it snow, let it snow

Did all the people who took part in the Arab spring have one voice? Do movements normally have one voice? Did the women's liberation movement only have one voice? Is one voice always necessary to bring about change? JoHn - "Ex amore victoria". ("From love comes victory".)
The simple answer to your question is yes. Did Emily Pankhurst and The SJ's have a single message - yes - votes for women. Did the Arab Spring have a single message - yes freedom from particular dictatorship and oppression and the right to hold free elections. Is one voice always necessary to effect change - of course it does. You cannot stage a revolution without orators, a single message and popular support. Love is not enough sadly, passion is not enough.

 

Lavadis. I think that you're confusing a single voice with a common cause. The Arab spring did not have a single voice. Yes, they all wanted to remove dictators but not all for the same reason. In Egypt, liberals were protesting beside religious right wingers. Furthermore, the women's lib movement didn't and still doesn't have a single voice. Germaine Greer and Camille Paglia, for instance, are both outspoken feminists but their opinions differ on a great number of issues. Did they share a common cause? Yes. Did they speak with a single voice? No. JoHn - "Ex amore victoria". ("From love comes victory".)
Thats interesting well wisher - I suspect you believe that their common cause is driven - "aut viam inveniam aut facium - I will either find a way or make one - go down there yourself and all you will find is arare litus - ploughing the beach until the next wave sweeps them away. love is where victory begins but it is never the end - that comes from unity and strength and they have neither

 

Lavadis, I prefer to look at it the other way round. Perhaps these protesters are just the first wave of something larger. It's early days yet and change takes time. Perhaps,in time more waves will come and in time, the waves will wear down and wash away the old order. JoHn - "Ex amore victoria". ("From love comes victory".)
If they occupy your house while you are on holiday as part of their struggle or set up their camp in the street outside your home or encourage your children to leave school and join their at best nebulous cause I suspect that the love would be at least a little diluted in your eyes. They are not a wave, they are a puddle.

 

It does seem to me that the organization called occupy london could be seen as a kind of voice even if their voice doesn't represent everyone involved in the protest. http://occupylondon.org.uk/ JoHn - "Ex amore victoria". ("From love comes victory".)
If it is a voice, if any of what I saw is a voice then it is one which will never be heard by anyone

 

But, Lavadis, the protest has got so much media attention. Ordinary people all over the country know about it and there are similar protests in America and other parts of the world. If it's a puddle then its a puddle that stretches across the Atlantic and a puddle that is known about throughout the world. If by 'not being heard', you mean that those in power won't listen then you could say the same thing about so many peaceful protests. Even protests that have united voices are often ignored by those in power. For example, I went on a march against the Iraq war. It didn't make alot of difference. I marched in the "Make Poverty History" march and it didn't make poverty history but I'm still optimistic that the more people see these demonstrations in the media or read about them in the paper, the more they will feel encouraged to join the demonstrations or start demonstrations of their own. JoHn - "Ex amore victoria". ("From love comes victory".)
This reminds me of Marlon Brando in "The Wild One" Girl: What are ya rebelling against, Johnny? Marlon: Whaddya got. Disatisfaction, I think, might be the thing that links them together. A feeling that they have no voice, perhaps and that such a protest is the only way they can make their individual grievances heard. I think that the 60's is a good example of people coming together and rebelling for lots of different reasons. Some rebelled against the government; some against war, some against inequality but some just rebelled against stuffed-shirt conservatism and conformity. I don't think its true that people all have to be protesting for the same reason to make a difference. But, most importantly, to me is that they're out doing something. As a teenager in the 90's, I felt that there was enormous apathy and lethargy and I hoped and dreamed for a time when people would again feel motivated and have some courage to go out and make a statement of any kind so I'm not really complaining if they're all there to gripe about there own problems. It annoys me more when I hear so many people on the internet who sound so conservative. Like old ladies in pinnies and curlers complaining about hippies and their loud music or 'coloureds' moving into the neighbourhood. Over the past few decades the world has become a much squarer place. People think their non-conformists but they're so critical of anyone actually doing anything unconventional. So, it makes my heart feel glad when I see the tents. I'm a romantic and they make me feel much more hopeful for the soul of humanity. JoHn - "Ex amore victoria". ("From love comes victory".)
FTSE, People got misty eyed about classical Rome and Greece and then the Renaissance happened. Even if all you said was true (Which it isn't because the 60's saw many radical social changes take place and that is just a historical fact), what's so great about now? The nineties and the naugtees were deeply uninspiring. Why not look back? I think a good idea would be to scrap Poppy day and start a Hippy Day instead so that we could commemorate all the battles fought in the 60's for freedom of speech and expression without which ABCtales. com would be a much duller website. It's not just the 60's either. It's the 50's/40's/30's/20's and even the turn of the century. They were all more exciting than now. You may tell me that the 1920's was not all flat chested flapper girls in cloche hats doing the charleston, gangsters, speakeasy's, jazz music and silent movie stars but it seems more beautiful than the age I'm living through and it inspires me. JoHn - "Ex amore victoria". ("From love comes victory".)
Civil rights protests DID bring about change. Furthermore, Greenpeace and Friends of The Earth , which both started in the 70’s, grew out of 60’s political activism and have both had significant success in helping to protect the environment. Not every Hippy became a Yuppie. Also, a causes ‘rightness’ is not dependent upon whether it is won or lost. If the Germans had won WW2 would that have made opposing the Nazi’s any less worthy a cause? As to what you say about freedom of speech prior to the 60’s. It’s simply not true. Here’s a link to an article on the History Today website on The Lady Chatterly Trial which contains examples of just how rigid censorship was before the 60's: http://www.historytoday.com/geoffrey-robertson/trial-century-lady-chatte... JoHn - "Ex amore victoria". ("From love comes victory".)
what a bunch of rubbish you've written here. when a movement identifies with 99% of western populations, they're hardly calling for the downfall of capitalism(there are always a few radicals and that's okay, too, so long as they're peaceful.) and the protests have been very impactful and peaceful; this government message that the protests need to be shut down because of a few deaths across a vast country of millions, only one of which had any particular connection to the protests(the veteran and his suicide,) is patently absurd. The uniting thread of these protests is a feeling that our economic/political situation is unfair, corrupt, and cruel. And many solidly middle class people formerly inclined to ultimately discount such views have changed their minds because they've been swindled of their retirements while their tax money has been given to bankers for bonuses.
"If I send you post-cards from the side of the road: photographs of movies, and hearts about to implode"  -  Elliott Smith
Interesting mention of Greenpeace, who recently succeeded in getting a European court to ban stemcell research. Genius, that's exactly what people who fund greenpeace want isn't it, an end to medical research, nobody's feeling remotely betrayed. As for the tented village, what it represents is anger and a failure of the democratic system to represent a significant portion of the popultation. Having said that, as someone who works in campaigns, it is annoyingly vague. It reminds me of the Viv Stanshall quote, "I don't know what I want, but I want it now"

 

Topic locked