Jade Goody. Why? Oh Why? Oh Why?

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Jade Goody. Why? Oh Why? Oh Why?

Why am I not mortified like the rest of the country at her imminent demise?

Every young person who dies from cancer is a tragedy. Agree completely with Mac. She isn't too bright and had nothing else going for her so why not cash in cult of instant celebrity. jude
Actually, I think she is doing a hell of a lot to raise public awareness of cancer, particularly amongst young women with regards cervical cancer. A lot of women shy away from smear tests because they are intrusive and embarrassing, forgetting they can save lives. The cervical cancer screening programme is the best screening programme in the country, according to my GP. Jade is doing a lot towards getting people to talk about this 'taboo', 'naughty bits' subject. I say: Goody on her! J x


That reminds me – there was a brilliant piece on here about going for a smear test… (Julie O’C?) involving a laughing nurse and a glitter covered flannel… ~ www.fabulousmother.co.uk
I enjoyed this: Fish: Popping Thread ... Posted by fish-(unverified) on March 6, 2002 - 21:26 this drives me insane ... whenever i find myself in a "clinical situation" why is it that the members of the medical profession always say: "just POP up on the couch" "POP your clothes on that chair" "POP this gown on" "just POP your legs open for me" what IS all this POPPING????? ... why can't they use words like "sling" and "throw" and "flop" ... ---- justyn_thyme (not verified) | March 6, 2002 - 21:39 I think "popping" is a universal diminutive for any action verb. It's function is to place the recipient in a state of childlike trust, deflect attention from what is really going on, and create distance between the two players in what would otherwise be an "intimate" situation. This is roughly the equivalent of calling Micheal by the name Mikey or Mikey-Wikey. Or maybe your doctor has a particular problem. :)) Would you rather have him say: "Flounce over here sister, park it on the table, and sling'em wide." Depends on the doctor I guess. jude "Cacoethes scribendi" http://www.judesworld.net
Jude, I was thinking about the "popping thread" just a few days ago. Then I logged in here for the first time in ages, and here it is! Great memory you have. As for Goody, it's terrible that she had to die so young and in such a painful way. Still, her decision to pile up some cash for her kids makes perfect sense to me. She deserves credit for that.
The figures announced state, that since Jade has gone public and decided (for what ever reason) to 'die publicly', 20% more women, have this year come forward for smear tests. Having lost loved ones to this insidious disease, I am of the view, that anything that serves to bring more awareness, HAS to be considered a good and positive thing. Just my view of course! Chris
Agreed. It is sad that a life's greatest achievement was its cessation. This woman hasn't actually done anything bad in her life cos being thick isn't really a fault. I am not sure I agree with Mac that it's entirely producers fault for vacuous celeb cult. After all, people have to buy those magazines and watch those reality TV shows. I don't so they don't bother me. Take a celebrity who really has done damage, Kirsty 'property prices only ever go up' Allsopp. Now there's utter irresponsible broadcasting. Before her tragedy unfolded, Goody was a variety of 'oh let's laugh at a thickie' relatively benign freak show, but to broadcast the economically illiterate Allsopp as an expert was damaging beyond belief. jude "Cacoethes scribendi" http://www.judesworld.net
Before all this I used to say "Jade Goodey doesn't deserve to live". It would be hypocritical to say anything different now. Used to say the same about Princess Diana actually.


What I don't understand is how people allowed this woman to annoy them. She never annoyed me because I don't watch the kind of television she featured on, I don't read the red tops and I don't read vacuous magazines. If a person chooses to participate in these kind of debasing pastimes then what do they expect? So, the only thing I know about Jade Goody is the little I read about Shilpa-gate in the broadsheets and today... her obituary. To sum it up I would say "A person formed by a disadvantaged childhood and a poor eductation (and possibly below average intelligence but this could be a consequence) takes advantage of cult of mindless celeb. Died tragically young. The end." jude
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"A person formed by a disadvantaged childhood and a poor eductation ... takes advantage of cult of mindless celeb. Died tragically young. The end." This is the most intelligent and well-reasoned comment I've read about the JG circus.
That 'JG' died probably won't affect my life or my children's! But how about a woman that went for a smear test recently and was positive for suspicious cells or the early signs of cervical cancer? This one woman (fictitious for the sake of this post) goes on to get treatment, rears a family, remains to see her kids grow, etc... just because of the awareness that can be directly attributed to 'JG'? The poor girl may be considered thick (there but for the grace of god...) but she may actually save AT LEAST ONE LIFE! How many of us can say the same? Let the girl rest in peace; she was someone's daughter, wife and MOTHER. As I stated previously;20% more women this year to date (fact!) have appeared for smear tests than heretofore; does this not tell us SOMETHING? R.I.P. Chris
Hear, hear, Chris! I think I have already stated my admiration for the girl for spending the last few months of her short life promoting cervical cancer awareness and doing a lot of good. J x


My health is poor again and I can’t be in Bangkok so I content myself with pottering about the Internet. I was quite shocked by Parky’s comment but more by the timing than by the content. For those who have somehow escaped the fuss here’s a quick synopsis: Sir Michael Parkinson claimed that Jade Goody, who recently died of cervical cancer at the age of 27, came to represent "all that is wretched about Britain…‘barely educated, ignorant and puerile’" and was "the perfect victim of our times" who had "died to an orchestrated chorus of exploitation". My first reaction was anger, well a little bit, as I’ve said, at the timing - surely those who loved her have enough to be upset about - but mostly that it seemed to me he was maintaining that ‘celebrities’ had a duty to be interesting, intelligent, and physically attractive. I almost decided to do a spoof piece with Parky saying she didn’t deserve her fame as she was too short and no good at cricket. It struck me that Parky had missed the Cinderella aspect of Goody. The rags to riches, the very fact that she was ‘ordinary’ and yet magically caught the public eye and ended up with a place in the hearts of thousands of people. A dream come true for those wannabes who don’t have any great talent, stunning looks, famous friends or fabulous fortunes but want to be famous anyway. However, eventually I saw, what might have been, Parky’s main point that: Maybe we do need people on TV who are willing to share their lives 'warts and all' and pay the very high price for their 'reality' celebrity... but if the media are going to create such celebrities with the able aid of Max Clifford, or the like, then surely it wouldn’t hurt to have a media Celeb Idol ‘Simon Cowell’ saying “Sorry you’re rubbish” and at least give the wannabes a bit more to aim at than mediocrity. Having said all that, Jade did seem to be a bouncy, big hearted, never say die, character and with the present doom and gloom maybe those 'talents' are going to be in short supply!
I thought the wreath reading 'East Angular' was in extremely poor taste as it suggested that her ignorance was warm and endearing rather than being extremely sad for her and an embarrassing consequence of our failing education system. jude
Macjoyce, if you'll be happy when Margaret Thatcher dies, you're less intelligent than Jane Goodey. Moron.


There'll be a one word (?) letter to The Guardian from me does pop her clogs - Rejoice.


That of course should read 'when' she does pop her clogs.


I don't think Thatcher was evil. I have mixed feelings about her policies but given the state of the country at the time, some of her policies branded as 'evil' were necessary evils. I think she, along with countless others (myself included) were naive in thinking the markets could regulate themselves. I still believe the poll tax is a better way of doing things but it was a good policy poorly implemented. The poll tax should be the same per person regardless of where you live and be automatically deducted along with PAYE and NI and redistributed to the councils. I admire her belief in responsibility of individuals for their own welfare. The current state of paternalism and pandering has engendered haplessness and dependency (across the socio-economic spectrum) at levels that are truly frightening. But it was Thatcher's policy of closing grammar schools ( it may have been a Labour policy but Thatcher closed more than any other politician) is the one thing I could never ever forgive her for. Being glad when Thatcher dies doesn't make Mac a moron; I understand his point even though I don't agree with his stance (I will try not to be glad when Ken Livingstone dies but I am certainly relieved that he has been removed from office). Thatcher and Reagan are the embodiment of a certain ideology. whether we hold that ideology is philosophically fair or 'evil' is a matter of opinion. jude
What's wrong with you FTSE? Well,you probably didn't get enough vitamins as a kid when they scrapped free school milk. Could be too much Argybargy, or perhaps your father worked down the pit or you lived in a village that was suddenly full of unemployed... could be that you like Ken Livingstone or you've forgotten that scientists look at things dispassionately :O)
I have a thing about torture, executions and indiscriminate bombings in which civilians get caught up. That's why I have no respect for Nelson Mandela who supported the Umkhonto we Sizwe (militiary arm of the ANC). Every time I go passed his statue in parliament square I feel sick and would far sooner see it replaced by one of Maggie. jude
Talking about Jews and famous Conservative prime ministers. It struck me recently that maybe Blair and Bush explained the need for the Iraq war by simply changing the intelligence from missiles that could reach Israel to missiles that could reach Europe. The war had to be started in a hurry because Saddam gave the missiles to Hans Blix to be decommissioned... hence no real plan. Well I'm starting to think that it is more likely than the oil explaination and where's Blair now? :O)
I’m a bit ‘hung-over’ today, which seems excessively unfair as I haven’t indulged in any drink or other drug (for several years now actually). As usual I blame the weather :o) Now I mention this because it has meant I have not felt up to checking my memory and so I can’t guarantee that I’m precise on the detail so post if you spot a mistake. I admit my bias but claim it is a justifiable response to Jude's opposing spin. In my mind Thatcher was the beginning of the end for the UK. Creating an atmosphere of win whatever the cost, of never mind integrity; the end justifies the means. I suppose being both a scientist and a barrister she had been trained to ignore her feelings - and it showed. Except for the time her beloved son got lost in the desert and the country was put on hold until he reappeared. Thatcher was exactly what this country didn’t need setting us on course for the mess we’re in now. Creating those awful people caricatured by “Loads a money” while undermining faith in the government and in justice and the rule of law. Even in her early career as minister for health her short-sighted, callousness was telegraphed to the nation when she scrapped free school milk - which, as even she later, admitted, was a very big mistake for a very little saving. However, it seemed to teach her nothing and she went on to build her career around stealing from the poor to give to the rich. Worse, her concept of merit contained only materialistic values and so penalised those whose work was vocational - no profit in caring! Indispensable services which had been free were suddenly charged for, and worse, in some crazy con trick to try and pretend her changes were for the benefit of the people we were told that although essential services were to be Privatised it would make them more efficient due to competition. So France now owns our water and of course competes with us, we are forever encouraged to swap from one energy supplier to the next only to find that once we change their prices immediately rise above the rest and I can never remember any of the numbers for Directory Enquiries (probably because I stopped using the service went it went from free to £1 over night)… I could moan on forever about the myopic vision of an iron lady who disguised her rust behind patriotism and profit. Brought us alienation, social division and the view that rampant greed is an acceptable motivation for the prosecution of Christian Capitalism. I rejoiced when, at last, even her own party replaced her after they realised that she was a power crazed megalomaniac with the vision of a rabid mole. I can’t see any point at all in rejoicing at her death.
Perhaps we could reach a compromise and get a replacement statue of Jade Goody in Parliament Square?! jude
I also emphasize that I am not a huge Thatcher fan (and certainly wouldn't want a statue although it would be a step up from NM); she had policies I liked and some I thought awful and some I had liked (free markets) but current events are proving us wrong! I think she is something of a scapegoat though. You can't pin the greed of a nation on one or two individuals who were in government at the time of a cultural shift. jude
"You can't pin the greed of a nation on one or two individuals who were in government at the time of a cultural shift." It's possible you're right, Jude, but it's a bit like saying you can't blame the Nazi's on Hitler. You are a Thatcher child and that's my main point. She shifted people's perspective so far Right that Tony Blair became a LABOUR Prime Minister. You're vision is so restricted by materialistic blinkers that you cannot see that all you need is, enough, sufficient, not as much as you can get! Thatcher paved the way for the economic mess we’re in now. If PROFIT is god then she was a prophet and her religion spread into high places. The result was that restrictions were removed and greed ran rampant. Here’s a repost from another thread… It seems to me that Bill Black - a former financial regulator and author of "The Best Way to Rob a Bank Is to Own One." - makes the damning assertion that the financial crisis was caused by a failure of morality. A failure in which greed conquered integrity and not just bank managers but CEOs of the most elite institutions in America engaged in, or facilitated, fraud for immense personal gain simply because they knew they could get away with it… http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/04032009/transcript1.html
To say my 'vision is so restricted by materialistic blinkers' is an odd comment to make about somebody who earns below the average London wage, lives in a council flat and shops at jumble sales. I want to advance my career true, but only so I can buy a home and an education for my children. However, I'd much rather house prices collapsed and grammar schools and the exam system improved to the extent I could afford to become an poor academic. I have a political belief based on a Lockean notion of property rights but I don't really have much property myself to get all righteous about! I understand if you mean 'materialistic blinkers' as a kind of ideology about how wealth should be distributed rather than an absolute in my own life, in which case I apologise for that unnecessary defense! jude
Hey Jude. I'm not attacking you, I know your circumstances and I know that you help and care about people. My point was that the ideology of Thatcherism was so insidious that few realised that it was a seed of destruction. People who were only young at the time swallowed it whole because the propaganda made it look like it was the best way forward to a more prosperous society. The blinkers I’m referring to are the ones that stop you from seeing that I’m talking about morality, caring, justice and fairness and you’re talking about position and wealth.
Oh, okay, I thought that may be the case ...just checking! I do believe in morality, caring, justice and fairness. These things are based on my own intuition but I also derive my beliefs from other thinkers. My morality comes from Locke, Kant and Mills; my caring comes from Hume. My notion of justice and fairness is quite Rawlsian (as was Blair's) even though I concede Rawls' notion of "Justice as fairness" has its flaws. The deep disagreement between the left and right is not whether fairness and justice is a good but what actually constitutes it. Back to Goody, I have just read the Southwark News and the people of the Bermondsey estate where she grew up have rejected an idea for a statue on the grounds that she contributed nothing to the local community. jude "Cacoethes scribendi" http://www.judesworld.net
Beliefs don't come from thinkers, Jude, but from believing. I started a reply quoting Wittgenstein but then it occurred to me that this isn’t a university question about philosophy it’s about how we choose the lights we live by. Children can often see through to the heart of things; because their ears are less susceptible to the bewitchment of an eloquent argument or the, thinly veiled, arrogant, assumption that if it’s complicated it must be clever so it makes you clever to agree. It’s easy to mistake intelligence for wisdom and verisimilitude for truth and there are a lot of fools who are intelligent and silly fools who listen to them. Sometime we should trust ourselves and tell the experts to take a running jump. That many traditions and inconvenient taboos were there for a reason; the collective experience of countless generations. That rushing headlong into a brand new, bright, tomorrow might actually blind us to the pitfalls of hurried change. Below is an extract from a poem I wrote years ago and posted on ABC soon after I joined. Nobody seemed to catch my drift at the time but I’m sure a lot more will now… Yesterday, though not perfect, was better than today. For in the name of progress so much good was thrown away. Loving, sharing, caring - they're fast going out of style. While hearts grow cold and greedy - only profit brings a smile. Gone are many values that gave meaning to our life. Replaced by materialistic mores - that fuels the growing strife. http://www.abctales.com/mykle/i_believe_in_yesterday
Interestingly, I took the political compass recently and I was surprised to learn that I have shifted considerably since the last time I took it. I am still to the right on the X axis but less so than previously. Also I was about -3 on the Y axis before and now I have shifted up to be exactly on the line at '0', so views do modify. Thanks for the poem, I like it. I do rely on intuition and an internal moral compass as well as being influenced by the arguments of others. However, I remain unconvinced that my generation is more greedy or materialistic than any other generation that's gone before. In fact I think generations X and Y are less greedy than the 'my house is my pension' Baby Boomers. Sure, Paris Hilton and her ilk do like to flash the cash but I think most young adults just want a reasonable job and somewhere decent to live, not cheap stardom and a mansion. Were things really better in the 'good old days'? Even Madoff copied Ponzi so his greed wasn't exactly new. jude
I'm pleased you liked the poem Jude. There has always been greed it is simply a matter of scale. I'm sure that as a general rule greed has grown with income. I could say more on this subject but I feel I ought to let you have the last word. Which is? (the last word that is) :O)
Who was it who said 'there is no such thing as society?'


Wasn't it Jude ;O) Seriously I seem to remember Maggie saying that the point of the Good Samaritan was that he was in a position to help - which, I think actually misses the point of the parable entirely! Mind you that was while Rod was at school and still trying to wake her up :O)
There is definitely such a thing as society but we must remember that the construct we call society consists of individual men and women and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look after themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then, also, to look after our neighbours. Hideous reductionist Jude-Maggie-Hybrid-Beast
:O) What does that mean?


Well, you managed to make me smile O hideous reductionist beast :O) On an equally light note – if we aren’t greedier now why are we fatter?
We had a bloke from Cafod come and talk to us on a staff away day about their 'Live Simply' Campaign; encouraging us to "look hard at our lifestyles, and to choose to live simply, sustainably and in solidarity with the poor". Still, it was hard to swallow this message when it was delivered by someone who, judging by his girth, obviously had a loyalty card with Greggs the bakers. jude
Styx, :O) is an emoticon, a visual way to express feeling or the tone of a written comment. :0) represents a smile and therefore a light or joking tone. jude
You've done it now, Jude! You've set me off... I’m on a diet at the moment since Thai food is sooo tempting... and you've started me dreaming. Oh for some pineapple with eggs and ham. Oh for some buttered toast with mixed fruit jam Bananas fried in batter made with tasty seed Who am I to talk of other people’s greed? Give me fried sausages and a full mixed grill. Give me lovely jellies with an ice-cream chill Give me cakes and biscuits and chocolate pie And I might be in heaven before I die :O)
You can’t help but wonder what Jade wasn’t thinking of when she chose her new husband! I’d say it probably wasn’t her two kids. http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/article.aspx?cp-documentid=16083673
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