Are personal insults part of free speech?

kheldar if someone's leaving personal insults in your comments, just drop a note to Tony and he'll sort them out - no need at all to turn off your comments!

Kheldar, I hope that this is reversible as all the comments you have received from people have disappeared from your poems - a real shame to have lost all the kind words and support given. Obviously I think personal insults are not acceptable and it's a real shame that you felt you had to take this course of action. I also think healthy criticism of a piece of work is valuable and should be encouraged - if people are taking the time to read closely what we are putting out and offering sound advice so that we can improve as writers, I for one am happy to take the initial sting of pain caused by someone not thinking my 'perfect' piece of writing is not quite as perfect as I first thought. Having said all that, I haven't had the balls to critique anyone elses work for fear of offending etc so I should probably just stop talking. Sorry this has happened to you Kheldar. :-)

Not sure I agree Biggus, I think some people would mind constructive criticism of their work, and I think the fear of offending and things getting personal (as well as time constraints etc) is probably one of the reasons it does not happen very often. I don't know the ins and outs of Kheldar's situation, but of course personal insults are not acceptable. You say have a thick skin, but why should you or Kheldar have to put up with it?

I think I know the comment you are refering to Keldar and it's not free speech, it's not constructive critism, it's downright rudeness. And neither you nor anybody should have to put up with it. You are not the only person this user (if my surmise is correct) has been rude too. usually I would say ignore it, but in this case a word with Tony would do us all a favour.

There is absolutly no excuse for rudness or abuse, there should be a 'report this abuse' button on everyone's page so that it can be dealt with swiftly and there should be a three strikes and you're out rule too. Sorry you should have had this happen to you Kheldar and has someone has already pointed out all those great and encouraging comments your great work has earned you, have all been in vain. Hold onto one fact though, and that is this; you are held in high esteem by the majority here and that is something to take pride in. Val

new Kheldar Sorry to hear what is happening, I did once to cut down the comment after,or deleted at the time.As new then didn't quite know what to exspect. But it does state CODE OF PRACTICE. and go easy,tread carefully some people's dreams Once I did ask for an opology or take it out. And the more sensitive one is me,worse one receives it,even at home.Feeling someone not listening quite understanding, if you try in the world, and not quite up to there way of thinking,always gets me into trouble,personalaties different, even make things,at home have often been ridiculed, me ears crooked on dogs etc; makes one feel uck! daughter says I don't do poetry not, more of knowledge and history and agony aunt, commentary some of life isn't it.Oh!I Have been there like you JUST LIKE YOU kheldar your "Croco-dile Tears" you helped me do,did go in The big Issue, but cut it down,but I was pleased with it.Keep warm. How far does freedom of speech go, in to-day's world, in many things?We do seem get fun out of depleting other's,at school reports could do better,I missed good bit of school.I have mainly found respect other's, now they will respect you,or just walk away. Paper states bring back the Gt.IN BRITAIN.I wonder Pavements cold and slippery. Take care.Keep up writing, thanks for your kind help.One can only try give one's 100% to them,knowing not the best? Hope your feeling brighter soon. There is always someone in the world no matter what or where,get's a kick out of being bossy,but they don;t always know they are doing it. If only we could learn,nobody is better than anyone else,and can teach other's things cn do, that would be a better goal, in life share our talents, if I can't do somethiong I am stuck I try. julie xx .

Dear Kheldar, I am so worried that this is about a comment I made on your poem. When I said cold turkey was something that you have with chips and pickles, I am so sorry, I really never meant any malice by it. All I meant was that you shouldn't have to go through it, it's an awful thing for me to have said, knowing how serious this is. All I can say is if this is the reason you took your comments off I can only apologize for what I have said. I really hope you can accept my opology. Jenny.

I believe that this comment was made by someone else skinner_jennifer. If I am correct this comment was made on Kheldars most recent work. I noticed the infered tone of the comment and have to say I missed the retort to Kheldars inquiry to what the comment was directed towards so I cannot comment more on it beyond that. As writers comments can have a truly destructive or inspiring effect on our work I think it prudent to give constructive criticism or praise or keep your thoughts to yourself. Kheldar you and I have had, what I consider great conversations on how we are careful what we let others view of our work. Always the downside of opening up is there is a twat (my fathers favourite insult) who uses that vulnerability as a tool to attack someone. I did not like the comment in any sense. There was no humour or constructive anything about it. If that was a long term friend those comments are still not cool. I would ask for kheldar to please turn his comments back on. You my friend are a writer. Not only are you a writer but you are among friends (to my experience of everyone who has actually commented on this forum post) who I see above me. The world is full of shameless bigots like that person and I for one think the best thing you can do at this point is to let the ones who care about your work do the commenting and I for one can assure you another snide comment from him/her will likely spark a backlash to the moderators about his/her behaviour. So let us back in to discuss your work in a positive light. Sincerely Dan

Hi Kheldar, It's difficult. I wish more people would comment. We are all here to learn. But some people just want to fling muck. That's very annoying. If it wasn't you, it would be aimed at someone else. Turning your comments button only hurts you. The problem just moves on to someone else. Report him/her. Best wishes

I'm glad you did kheldar - if someone's being a dick then he should know. Not telling tales at all

well come on then, what was the bloody comment?

Nolan called Kheldar brainless (twice) and Kheldar got pissed off about it (which is fair enough). Feel like i'm 12 again!

Had I the heavens' embroidered cloths, Enwrought with golden and silver light, The blue and the dim and the dark cloths Of night and light and the half light, I would spread the cloths under your feet: But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams and every single piece that we post... Just tread softly people & have respect.. Dan

I once tried to play the drums.. My uncle who was a talented drummer who was listening once said to me: "SHUTUP DAN!" Then he also added: "You need to learn to play softly and appreciate the nuances of the sounds before you can play loud with coherency." Without the follow up comment he would have just been harsh and abrupt. regardless of the talent if you want someone to learn you need to have a constructive end to any criticism. Dan

...and so say all of us! :-)

Kheldar I am very sorry that I was so insensitive. It was not my intention to insult you in any manner. Nor anyone else on Abc. And to tell the truth- I know how you feel. Cheers keep well! Nolan

What dissapearing act?

My apologies for a being a while in responding. I have been stuck away from my computer for a spell due to the weather but after a hairy drive and a major slide down the hill (I live on a one in four slope!), I, the car and my wife are all home again safely. On to the matter in hand. I will not tolerate rudeness or personal insults on the site. I used to be far more 'laissez faire' but things rapidly got out of control. I care deeply about all of our members and I will not have them senselessly insulted. I have written personally to Kheldar to get the wording of the insult and then I will take appropriate action. Please do feel free to write to me if you spot anything of this ilk - I am determined to keep ABCtales a pleasant place to be.

Look please. I never said that Kheldar was brainless. He himself said so. And honestly I've never meant to be rude not even to mention insult any person on Abctales. If someone experienced me as such it is a misunderstanding. Even said, I promise to compensate and be more careful in future. Cheers! Nolan &&

Nothing much changed here then!

I had some very negative comments left on one of my pieces on the evening of new year's eve. I thought it was really sad, some poor loser with nothing better to do that sit in front of his computer posting nasty messages. There's definately a story there somewhere.

ah well its not fair to us who really wanto comment on your work either,! glad their back on kheldar just delete it next time hey? K x

'...Nothing much changed here then!...' Hello George! Oddly I was thinking about you only yesterday and wondering how you were (despite past...er...altercations) and hoping you were/are okay. However, an awful lot has changed here...(you'd be in your element) http://www.ukauthors.com http://www.ukapress.com

Nolan you have done it before and I think you should consider whether this is the right forum for you! Pia

Hi Kheldar, I'm very pleased you have brought up this subject. I have been a victim of this in the past and I usually cast it off as professional jealousy and get on with writing the next thing. However, writers are sensitive beings and not without fairly big egos to boot - if you'll forgive the assumption. But this kind kind of rudeness is insensitive and downright unnecessary. But the best way to take it is as a compliment to your proficiency from someone who is unable to aspire to what you are capable of. I have been insulted by certain members of ABC who I know for a fact have occupied editorial positions at some time or other, and then to have been ostracised when I've had the 'temerity' to bite back. What amazes me is that fellow authors (especially members of the same body) should ever consider doing this. An excellent forum point and I'm so pleased it has been raised. Thank you for your post. sd

My God! I joined this site in the early part of this century when Jasper and Mississippi were in full flight. Jasper (who never submitted any work) was or had psychiatric problems and hated everyone, Mississippi was your everyday misogynist who seemed to have it in for Archergirl. What's happened to her Tony? I think at the time Tony was new to this and was trying to run a liberal writing site, but this of course lets the nutters out there - in. Tony et al sorted this problem out and this is I think the best creative writing site out there. I have in my stumblebum way, mugged up on other writing sites and they all have stringent rules. 'Oooh, no bad language no sexual content.' That rules me out straight away. This site gave me some confidence that I had something to offer, when published writers said to me 'you need to do something with this.' I began to believe in myself. Thanks Tony!

Thanks Styx - and anyone who has a problem with a comment can write to me and it will be dealt with swiftly and properly. I will not let us go back to the 'bad old days'.

Hey Styx...good to see you're still around. And Old George...Mississippi, still alive, that is good news. Things were not all that bad a few years back, and I remember some very interesting discussions. The only thing that really turned me off here and elsewhere (mostly elsewhere) were the constant attacks on my nationality, which seems to still be tolerated and acceptable practice in some circles. I always believed that Tony is/was a very solid groundskeeper here though and never resorted to heavy handedness as the site administrator. Visit me http://www.have-camera-will-travel.com/

Hello Denver, lovely to see you too. And ol' George, eh? Just like old times! Not able to access your site through normal methods, alas, but fear not! Proxy and cache presented no probs. Always loved your photography, and was particularly impressed, this time, with the Lightroom 3 presets. Marvellous stuff! And I do so agree - Tony is a wonderful site admin, and much to be admired. http://www.ukauthors.com http://www.ukapress.com

Styx said: "Jasper (who never submitted any work) was or had psychiatric problems and hated everyone". I never knew Jasper or whether he had problems and I recall that many people were irritated by his comments but he always had nice words to say about my work.

Most people get irritated by something. The problem is when somebody believes the particular irritation they are experiencing is more important than what someone else is experiencing and they can then dictate to the masses what is and isn't officially irritating. This absolves them of responsibility for being irritating to others. Sort of a moral high ground built with heaping helpings of self righteousness and indignation for things not familiar or preconceptions reinforced. Visit me http://www.have-camera-will-travel.com/

That is some comment Denver. Has it ever occurred to you that someone can actually say offensive things? Are we supposed to make a psycho analasis of all offensive comments and succumb to the loonies that like to abuse the site? Just a humble query. ;)Pia

I'm not certain what we should do. Maybe we can define "succumb to the loonies" into something a little more tangible. Succumb in what way? After that, we can then identify exactly who "the loonies" are so we will know exactly who to avoid succumbing to. We need to know these things for the good of all. Just a thought. And of course, this all dependent upon the notion that "the loonies" are indeed present and need to be identified. There must be loonies, don't you think. Lets find them. Visit me http://www.have-camera-will-travel.com/

"There must be loonies, don't you think. Let's find them." While I realise you were joking Denver it has to be said that I had worries about you after your penultimate post to - http://www.abctales.com/forum/2010/12/10/speak-truth-and-be-devil I realised that you've probably been watching more Fox than you realised :O) “Lastly, and this is my own developed viewpoint from the past 10 years. I've seen the US support Great Britain and France and other European countries for the last 100 years, through 2 world wars and countless other civil disorders and crises. Thousands and thousands of Americans have willingly given their lives to protect British and European interests.” Well, that’s certainly a point of view that Hollywood used to support. Of course some of us who don’t know much about wars thought that the world wars were mostly between Europeans and America was making a fortune selling arms to both sides in the second world war until the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour and America was forced to get involved. “This vilification of the US by liberal Europeans has progressed to the point that I feel as a US Citizen, I simply can't identify with the morals and mindsets of Europeans and I must now teach my children and grand children that they should not be in any hurry to risk their lives for Europeans. Why, because I see a lot of hatred in Europeans towards one another and now towards the US. Europeans have a long history of not getting along with one another and now they've turned on the US and don't want to get along with us.” I might be wrong but it seems to me to be quite the reverse in that it is now the Europeans who are risking their lives fighting a war that everyone seems to agree is unwinable because America has asked them to. “ I'm not the only US Citizen who feels this way. There is a growing mindset in the United States that Europe is not that important in the world economy and they are too incapable of losing their old ways of doing things. I'm pretty happy here in my world and pretty safe too. I don't really need Europe or Great Britain to tell me anything about how to run my life.” So the US has ruined the world economy with its toxic debt and now because Europe is still struggling to recover from it then it is time to write off the old fashioned, stick-in-the-muds of Europe because America is doing so much better?

Mangone, What channel is Fox on? I may have to watch it after all. You've got me all curious. (looks for instructions for operating television) Visit me http://www.have-camera-will-travel.com/

I don't think you are funny Denver. We were talking about offensive comments if you care to remember.

Well Highhat, thanks for reminding me, however, I'm more interested in "lapdog governments"at the moment. Share your state secrets at... http://www.amerileaks.org

Well Denver then follow your interests on the right thread ;)

Highhat, Who put you in charge of what I say and where I say it buckaroo? Share your state secrets at... http://www.amerileaks.org

I expected that sort of reaction from you Denver. You are very predictable

Good Highhat, I try to keep it simple with guys like you. There's always someone who thinks it is their job to correct others. You're one of them aren't you? Now we each know where the other stands, what do you say we make nice and you keep your instructions to yourself in the future? Share your state secrets at... http://www.amerileaks.org